Were the Koreans still cheating at Santiago?

#1

archetype

I want to talk about the narrative going on since last year.
Korean teams share scrims, Korean teams cheat, Pacific is rigged for them, blablabla.

For the third year in a row, a Korean team has made an international grand final and won a Masters.

How much longer are we going to continue this narrative? As a Korean, it is honestly really annoying to see posts talking about how Koreans are cheaters, how the league is rigged for Koreans, someone even said that cheating is in our DNA (i’m not joking, i can look for the post).

https://www.vlr.gg/post/6276024/now-for-your-punishment-murr

While I agree that Lakia and Sylvan’s headset thing looks sus and should be investigated, even if they actually were cheating, that’s two people and one of them isn’t even on a Korean team. But Korean teams and Koreans in general were the subject of borderline racist/xenophobic remarks in the community and it just makes me upset.

How many times does a Korean team have to prove to you that they are simply just good, for people to stop attacking them and calling them cheaters?

Just wanted to get this off my chest.

#2

shrike-

17

Frags

+

–

well there is a potential that some korean teams cheated

does that mean without the cheating they wouldn't still win? no

#5

archetype

-3

Frags

+

–

while it is possible that some Koreans (as in individuals) cheated, NONE of them could have cheated at internationals and 3/5 Korean teams have won a trophy in the last 3 years in an environment where cheating just isn’t possible.

I hate to say it openly but Korea is singlehandedly carrying Pacific alongside PRX and Korea is the one getting flamed for it. It comes off more like people are just mad their favourite team could not qualify because a Korean team beat them.

When PRX qualifies for an international everybody celebrates, but when a Korean team qualifies people immediately doubt the legitimacy of the qualification and call into question the team’s honesty. How can this be fair?

#12

Kingpussay

7

Frags

+

–

This is the dumbest take you can have. Just because they can't be cheating in internationals doesn't mean that they can't be listening in korea too. Even from PRX voice comms the players can still hear the korean casters and you don't thinks that an issue?

#13

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

read my post again buddy

#29

Kingpussay

5

Frags

+

–

"while it is possible that some Koreans (as in individuals) cheated"."when a Korean team qualifies people immediately doubt the legitimacy of the qualification and call into question the team’s honesty".You are asking why people doubt korean teams instead of PRX(a non korea speaking team) and then is surprised when people doubt them. Do you even read your own statements?

#31

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

yes because not every Korean team that does well is fair game to cheating accusations lmfao, you’re not making a lick of sense, unless you’re speaking with the presumption that Koreans are cheaters instead- in that case you probably think you’re making a ton of sense.

#63

Kingpussay

0

Frags

+

–

Obviously Im not saying all Korean teams are cheating, like are you dumb and actually not reading?i'I'm literally answering you why people doubt korean teams(which you have answer yourself btw)

#64

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

you still haven’t understood my point.

Even from PRX voice comms the players can still hear the korean casters and you don't thinks that an issue?

i literally talked about how that is still an issue and should be investigated already, but you can’t read so you just ignored it or something idk lmao

while it is possible that some Koreans (as in individuals) cheated"."when a Korean team qualifies people immediately doubt the legitimacy of the qualification and call into question the team’s honesty" You are asking why people doubt korean teams instead of PRX(a non korea speaking team) and then is surprised when people doubt them. Do you even read your own statements?

if one american cheats at a sport, should all americans be viewed as cheaters? no lol, that’s dumb. also i’m not asking why about anything.

i'I'm literally answering you why people doubt korean teams(which you have answer yourself btw)

i never asked WHY people doubt korean teams. seriously, learn to read. if you use your eyes, you can see I asked how this can be fair. the answer is that it is not.

i can tell that you are not proficient in the English language and I also know you’re a fakeflagging person somewhere from Asia judging by your post history so I understand that it may be difficult to properly comprehend what I’m saying but rest assured a lot of your gripes are easily cleared up if you take the time to properly read my posts!

#3

WjFROST0

39

Frags

+

–

NS literally learned spanish so they could hear what the casters are saying

#54

sh1lll

0

Frags

+

–

Bro im crying i saw that shit on a yt stream comment on their opening match 😭

#55

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

😭

#59

WjFROST0

0

Frags

+

–

i lowkirkeunly came up with ts on the spot

#60

sh1lll

0

Frags

+

–

you're just a yt chatter at heart (and brain)

#4

catNmouse

0

Frags

+

–

Notice how those comments went away the moment T1 got eliminated

It was always about finding a reason to hate on T1 rather than the actual controversy itself

#7

archetype

5

Frags

+

–

Literally nobody even said T1 was listening to the casters too, people just randomly started assuming that. The only thing T1 was accused of was vaping in the bathroom.

#8

catNmouse

0

Frags

+

–

It’s just baseless hate

#9

Monsteiur

1

Frags

+

–

I certainly meme’d T1 bathroom breaks a lot, i just find it funny seeing someone like stax vapping in the toilet lmao. But fr0st (the biggest korean hater) did say that T1 is on the good side.

#18

archetype

1

Frags

+

–

it’s fine to hate on T1, but it’s not fine to hate on Koreans in general as a way to hate on T1

#6

t0t0_wolff

0

Frags

+

–

Jake Sin beating the allegations by being right

#10

AntiwitchPC

8

Frags

+

–

NS perform well tho , no way thy understand spanish

in pacific tho, Headset issue is still Questionable

#14

archetype

-1

Frags

+

–

yes, but every time a Korean team wins people will be quick to generalise ALL koreans as cheaters. When iBP threw in CS it’s not like everyone said all Americans are matchfixers

#16

AntiwitchPC

0

Frags

+

–

well, i can't say anything about it, but atleast for me i won't

#32

itoktobenotok

1

Frags

+

–

Match-fixing doesn't really cause explosive backlash like cheating does even though both are seriously bad.
Cheating is seen as a robbing act against the opponent. It's directly and illegally harm opponent teams and their fans.
Match-Fixing: in iBP case while it was a betrayal of the fans, it didn't rob the other team of a fair chance to play. In fact, the other team (NetCodeGuides) won easily. It was a fraud against the betting system, not a theft of the opponent’s victory. Nobody was harmed just the gamblers who often be seen deserved to be scam

#33

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

okay, when KQLY got VAC banned in CSGO no one labelled all French as cheaters. My point still stands.

#46

itoktobenotok

1

Frags

+

–

https://youtu.be/TTQZU9O1v5E?si=Bbe22I_yAftQqRcy&t=294
Because this scandal was a long time ago (11 years), it’s going to take me a lot of time to dig through Twitter and Reddit for hate threads, since those platforms bury old posts. Luckily, I found an old video of Thooorin talking about the witch hunt after the incident.

#47

archetype

2

Frags

+

–

right, so I guess I didn't really encounter the hate threads against KQLY, i stand corrected. thorin still shares my opinion though - which is this generalisation is stupid and should never happen.

#49

itoktobenotok

0

Frags

+

–

nuke truth

#11

Castawaytwizz

3

Frags

+

–

it's looking like only the shit koreans cheated 🤔 unless dambi has a duolingo streak

#15

Kittenmyeow

0

Frags

+

–

Aren't the only suspected ones sylvan and lakia? both having not even performed well in kickoff?

#17

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

tell that to the angry mob that were saying Koreans cheat, the league is rigged for Koreans, Koreans scrimshare, etc.

#19

thatpower

-2

Frags

+

–

ngl a lot is rooted in seasians having an inferiority complex so they just spread misinfo and victimize themselves. nothing you can really do about it

#22

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

I don’t want to believe this.

#40

Kittenmyeow

4

Frags

+

–

I think south east asians are just passionate about their countries. and its easy to see something potentially unfair, and name that as the reason why.

I think the manner in which it got called out is very weird. Why wait until you've played every single match until you say something? it genuinely made me lose some respect for jemkin. its your job to play games ffs, if you notice something potentially unfair immediately call attention to it.

#53

itoktobenotok

1

Frags

+

–

Simply because he afraid of being accused of crying baby or coping back?
He didn't complain in the early weeks because they played against DFM and PRX, team with no Korean.
RRQ prolly asking their players to avoid making drama and focusing on the games also the NS game wasn't even that bad so he kinda let it go? If this were babybay, he would napalm bombing twitter all over the place no sleep even if bro got a game tomorrow.

Also what would you look like if you start coping in map 2 vs T1 about the headset noise insulation is bad and require the production board to change the headset for everybody including T1 players, what percentage of the board accepting your request? and what percentage of you making a clown of yourself on the twitter?

#20

DewaKeren

2

Frags

+

–

Well i think that abusing act only applies on certain teams. We cant judge that every korean teams do that. Well i still stand on my judgement that abusing act is not cheating. More like unsportmanship mate. I believe there still many korean teams & player that play fair like drx, ns, slt mate

#21

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

yes, this is a fair and reasonable take - not all Korean teams cheat, and not generalising. Unfortunately, we are in the minority 😔

#26

DewaKeren

0

Frags

+

–

Well its hard bro. Because one do it, ppl judge that all of it done it. Toxic ppl always baited it. Im glad NS wins Santiago to prove that korean teams can strong without unsportmanship act

#27

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

i appreciate your kindness thank you

#23

EctoVoid

4

Frags

+

–

This is a good statement.
I never really understood the over-hate

#25

archetype

3

Frags

+

–

it just gets to a point, like hating on individuals? fine by me. hating on teams? fine by me.

but why hate on the people or ethnicity in general?

#24

Seo_w

0

Frags

+

–

It's okay, let them find an excuse everytime they lose, only better for us if they continue bitching and not actually realize hard work makes the difference

#28

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

true

#30

1One1

0

Frags

+

–

T1 *cough

#34

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

#7

#35

aatabii

0

Frags

+

–

if you see NS.... "oh they are so good... ofc not cheating"
if you see t1 superteam grouped..... "they are so bad... qualifed by cheating"

so its not about performance team... but the evidence of cheating
is fr0st lying? idk
is korean team have home-advantages? idk
but how Jake SIN handles these allegation... just make it worse

#39

archetype

2

Frags

+

–

funny thing about that is legit nobody said T1 was listening ti the casters or cheating, read #7

#36

forklift2

0

Frags

+

–

yep they cheated

#37

svionSKR

3

Frags

+

–

this doesn't mean others did not cheat and how does ns winning trophy justify alleged cheating by other players in vct pacific ?? ns was not even in the talks of this whole scenario.

#38

archetype

2

Frags

+

–

W reading comprehension, i never justified anything, nor did i say that sylvan and lakia and others weren’t cheating

“Koreans are cheaters”, “cheating is in Korean’s dna”, “Pacific is rigged for Koreans”
but also
“nobody said NS, a Korean team full of Korean players and staff, are cheaters”

lmfao do you people hear yourselves? the amount of hate Korean teams and Koreans as a whole were getting was absurd. Don’t act like they were only specifying the shady players, this bandwagon was going against the generalised Korean people since 2024 with the scrimsharing allegations. Every time any Korean team lost, it was because they didn’t have shared scrims.

what i have been saying from the start was to stop the racist and xenophobic remarks against Koreans as a whole for something that wasn’t even proven and if it is, was only done by a select few people. if you can’t read and understand that then you shouldn’t be making such an outrageous opinion.

#41

svionSKR

0

Frags

+

–

Wait when did I justify hating Koreans or said Koreans are cheaters .
I just said few players are alleged of cheating common man don't twist my words .you can go and even check my other comments to see if I hate Korean players or something like that .
Me saying ns was never in the talks was just because you made this statement after ns won isn't it?

#42

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

if you didn't say it, then the original post is not aimed at you. There have been multiple instances of people throwing hateful remarks towards Koreans and Korean teams since 2024's scrim sharing controversy. I just want that to stop. There's more evidence to prove that most Korean teams do well because they are actually that good, than there is to prove that Korean teams cheat. So it would be nice if people stopped operating under the default assumption of: A Korean team is doing well in Pacific? They must be cheating, because all Koreans do is cheat and share scrims and rig the tournament!

#43

svionSKR

0

Frags

+

–

fighting

#44

spunkspray

-1

Frags

+

–

Just enjoy their inferiority complex, anger, and whining. Both korean victories and the sea cringing will continue anyway.

#45

Cast1e_luck

0

Frags

+

–

Tell them to make excuses for the rest of their lives. That doesn't change the outcome

#48

1One1

-3

Frags

+

–

Cherry picking because NS won?

How about other korean team?

#52

archetype

1

Frags

+

–

you mean the masters shanghai winners geng or the masters bangkok winners t1?

and what does this even have to do with what i said anyway, then again you were one of the people i saw the most hating on Koreans, so i guess it's not surprising coming from you.

#50

TMosura

✔

0

Frags

+

–

As much as I call for a fair investigation into the situation; I do agree that the hate (beyond the legitimate criticisms from both sides) are getting ridiculous.

I've seen it during the whole fr0st and termi debacle, and now this.

Does this mean Korean teams are potentially absconded from the faults that they are being accused of? No, investigation is still an investigation, and jemkin + parties involved (as much as a mess that entire situation was) deserves a closure.

But do the other Korean groups that wasn't even near or being directly accused deserves the inhuman amount of hate? No. Even Nongshim was confused when given warning for that one instance of them potentially being late due to the unclear communications.

#51

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

Does this mean Korean teams are potentially absconded from the faults that they are being accused of? No, investigation is still an investigation, and jemkin + parties involved (as much as a mess that entire situation was) deserves a closure.

i 100% agree, there is no place for cheaters. they should be identified and punished accordingly, but as you said, it does not justify the harassment to an entire ethnic group. indiscriminate hate was being sent to Korean people, not just Korean teams or players. People were saying racist/xenophobic shit and it was disgusting.

#56

officialnlechoppa

0

Frags

+

–

little brother, "Koreans cheating" is a joke. don't take it seriously. we all know these titles were deserved

#57

archetype

0

Frags

+

–

lmfao

#58

SENfns

1

Frags

+

–

i mean the only people we have proof of doing it are sylvan and lakia and they both somehow still didn't make it to Santiago

#61

suklaamies699

0

Frags

+

–

Koreans are just too good, i guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBZCFiq3u5E&t=16s

#62

tessasz

0

Frags

+

–

bump

#65

Zhinbets

0

Frags

+

–

lol all they know to do is cry and whine

just let them yap and complain until the entire league is korean