GOAT CONVERSATION

#1

DBStudios

Actually serious convo tho like why do people think that Chronicle is the GOAT purely off trophies alone, like Messi/Ronaldo are considered the GOATs of football because they have been the best of the best for years and are the best on their team. They will still be considered the goats even if they don't win, however when you look at Chronicle he has never been the best on his team, nAts was the best in 2021, 2022 was nonexistent, and in 2023 he wasn't even top 3 on his team. Now we get to 2025 where he's top 3 now but only because top 4 and 5 are an IGL and a full on recon dart/fade eye + secondary caller.

Now you compare this against a guy who is a literal raid boss every year he plays in, if you told anyone to peek aspas or Chronicle they would always choose Chronicle

#2

sentinelmain377

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Chronicle is the GOAT purely off trophies alone

nobody thinks that ONLY the trophies matter. the trophies are just one out of many reasons

if you told anyone to peek aspas or Chronicle they would always choose Chronicle

woah. suddenly mechanics means everything now? Alfajer is the GOAT then and by MILES. Alfajer is doing what aspas does, but at more events than just champs.

what are these stupid ass points?

#5

shrike-

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i am very fine with putting alfajer at the top of the goat list because of the way he’s been consistent over the past few years so your point is moot

#6

mayafuni

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Real. I'd say best FNC player has always been Alfajer, no debate. Kaajak when he's peaking is close. but Alfajer's consistency is domination.

I find it even funnier now because we can see just how broken of a team FNC are where without their GOAT player they can still 2-1 PRX.

#7

sentinelmain377

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🤦

i am very fine with putting alfajer at the top of the goat list

u must be baiting or really dum.
Alfajer isnt the GOAT because goat rankings are not based on only mechanics...

#10

shrike-

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Thankfully alfajer doesn’t only have mechanics, he has two trophies and is consistently the best player on a team with multiple grand finals

#9

DBStudios

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nobody thinks that ONLY the trophies matter. the trophies are just one out of many reasons

When people argue about is aspas or chronicle the goat people always yap about how "chronicle is better because he has won 3 times while aspas has won once" lmao.

woah. suddenly mechanics means everything now? Alfajer is the GOAT then and by MILES. Alfajer is doing what aspas does, but at more events than just champs.

Aspas has dominated way longer than alfa has lmao and has made teams better just by joining while alfa has had a superteam since the beginning of time, even then I don't mind him being at least the top 5 goat lists I'm making a point dumbass about how Chronicle glazers are js making points that only highlight one area.

#11

sentinelmain377

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alfa has had a superteam since the beginning of time

alfa is the super player

first Boaster "had a superteam", then Chron "had a superteam", and now Alfajer "had a superteam"

this isnt a real argument.

also aspas has only "dominated" since 1 event before Alfajer. Alfajer actually has an official MVP and better international placements/success

#12

DBStudios

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Yeah and js ignore my other points entirely lmao, I'm bringing up the fact that anytime aspas joins will become a top 3 contender at champs no matter what, alfa is a super player but he also had Leo and Derke in 2023 and then Kaajak in 2025 alongside arguably the best IGL itw.

#13

sentinelmain377

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i did address ur other point (edit)

if i made a stats comparison between aspas and alfa rn, alfa would clear just lyk. aspas has been less mechanically "dominant" than Alfajer internationally and that is a fact. Alfajer also has more success internationally.

im ngl, this discussion has made me start to consider alfajer > aspas ???

#17

shrike-

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I’m beyond surprised you haven’t been considering this at all

i’ve been trying to push the narrative that alfa is MINIMUM top 3 of all time but it never seems to stick

#18

Aayan

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Here's aspas and alfas international stats at each tournament they've played at
(Weighted stats based on rounds played per tournament, and excluding Champions Paris as it's ongoing)

https://i.imgur.com/bGV3Ybp.png

#19

Aayan

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and here is chronicle vs aspas if you're interested

https://i.imgur.com/iNgLuTk.png

#3

themaniel

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Because if we go off raw skill and not achievements then haodong is just the clear goat and that’s boring for everyone

#4

mayafuni

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No clue. I mean the reasoning is that Chronicle's stats are more consistent in international events overall, but that's also factoring the fact that Chronicle's team in general is the highest of the high. He's definitely a goated support player though, close to top in flex (I'd put forsaken over him in terms of flexibility, but in terms of support and clutching, I think Chron's stats are really high).

Issue is that aspas does it with teams that aren't considered superteams. Leviatan was not considered a superteam (or at least not on the same caliber as the others around it like Sentinels), and neither was MIBR, which had 3 rookies. Chronicle was a part of the FNC rebuild, and was part of the only actual "dynasty" (the term is used loosely) in valorant, where they had the best team in the world for a bit, and Gambit was basically the best of their time until they started choking.

Either way, I think both are goated, and I'd say individually aspas is my goat, but in terms of accolades and I guess achievements, Chronicle is the best.

#8

emptybackis

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my brain says chronicle my heart says aspas

#15

sentinelmain377

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it's called "bias"

#14

Cael

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And he was top 5 in most of internationals while playing flex agents and when it mattered he would pop off having like 50-60 kills in a series many many times i think he should be in the goat debate not saying he is the undisputed goat but its disingenuine saying he's getting carried when he's the one setting up teammates and still fraggin meanwhile aspas is a duelist his agents kit's are meant to kill and the whole team is setting him up giving up guns org positions swining first for him to bait aspas is a great player and also in the goat debate but judging by the fact that he is a team player that is flexing agents and doing consistently 50+ kills +all the thropies and so many 2nd places is nothing to scoff at

#16

mxnu

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Maybe he was never the best on his team, but it's not his role to be the best and yet he's close to 2nd if not 2nd best on teams that are always fighting for titles. And I think that being a superstar, knowing your role and enabling your teammates is much more valuable than having the best Rating or ACS in the tournament. And even if you like stats he's always on top but people like to talk like he's putting Boaster numbers when it's quite the opposite. He 100% COULD play more selfish and get better numbers, but he knows that his chances of winning are much more higher if the ones getting kills are Alfa and Kaajak in this case, so why would he stat pad if that wouldn't help achieve the ultimate goal that is winning trophies.