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Leo to VIT

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#1
Veri

Im sorry i dont believe this is happening for even a second. It makes no sense.

First of all: FNC is better than Vitality. If he wants to play and is now healthy to do so, why not just replace Crashies? He would be with his homies again and FNC would immediately become the best team in the world no questions asked. Like there is a decent chance VIT doesnt even make it to champs, why even risk it? Also i just think Leo likes FNC too much to leave especially after all the support they gave him after his health issues.

To be fair maybe im just getting baited by baseless rumors but eh whatever

#2
king_bob
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SHUT. THE. ****. UP.

#3
propredicter
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leo is playing for ardiis premier team no cap

#10
kazutinVAL
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they played no games though

#4
InYourDreams
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Ofc it’s not His contract ends after champs not middle of the season

#5
CrackedDuelist
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maybe a loan is possible

#6
InYourDreams
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Why would they loan him since crashies would be leaving when he return to main roster for you info crashies is temporary until Leo is back even the org itself has mentioned it

#8
CrackedDuelist
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why would you drop an in-form crashies for a 1 year sick leo

edit: didn't know that thanks for informing btw

#7
Veri
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i had no idea when his contract ended im just saying from a competitive stand point it doesnt make sense

#9
Congo1
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If he wants to play and is now healthy to do so, why not just replace Crashies?

FNC is a masters contender right now and Crashies is in stellar form, their 2nd highest rated player. team chemistry also excellent right now. Leo while being the goat has been gone for over a year and its unclear in which shape he is right now. Compare to s1mple before signing to Faze.

Like there is a decent chance VIT doesnt even make it to champs, why even risk it?

You assume he even has the option to play for FNC. They might not want to risk it. Vitality has one of the most champ points total in EMEA. If they do reasonably well in stage 2 they are strongly favoured to make champs. Dont forget... They still have fucking Derke and Less. Also a very promising talent in cyvoph. If they fix the igl situation with proven T2 IgL unfake the structural issues that were the main reason for their underperformance could very well be gone.

Also i just think Leo likes FNC too much to leave especially after all the support they gave him after his health issues.

My guy... these are companies. They act with profit motive. They ditched many players in the past ruthlessly. They kept Leo because he is a extremely valuable asset with an uncertain return date. he could have been back months ago already to play. You cant know that in advance. They are not a family

#13
Veri
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"They might not want to risk it" ???? Risk what exactly? Im not saying Leo should sub for Crashies for Toronto, but for Stage 2? I dont see why not. No matter how much "In-form" Crashies is, Leo is undeniably a much better player and if you give him some time in Stage 2 he is for sure going to be better than Crashies. As for chemistry bro Leo played with this core for more time than Crashies has so this shouldnt be a problem. Unless you believe Leo is unable to reach Crashies' current form or better by Champs (which lets be for real he definitely is) then its totally reasonable.

Besides, FNC themselves said Crashies is just subbing for Leo, so as soon as he's healthy and has time to reintegrate, its totally reasonable to assume he is going in. You use the "companies" and "money" argument, do you really think FNC kept Leo in the bench and spent all this money on his recovery just to let him go like that? No chance. What i meant is that Leo himself is likely attached to his ex-teamates and org for their support and would more than likely want to play with them again, i dont see how thats unreasonable to think.

Also yes the players on VIT are good but if that meant anything VIT should be at Toronto shouldnt them? Good 5 players dont make a good team. Do you really think the safest option is going to a struggling team who is gonna pick a t2 IGL instead of the team that you know already works and can only get better with you entering? Be for real.

#14
Congo1
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You talk so much but understand so little.

"They might not want to risk it" ???? Risk what exactly?

Their team performing worse after making a change on a winning roster.

Im not saying Leo should sub for Crashies for Toronto, but for Stage 2? I dont see why not. No matter how much "In-form" Crashies is, Leo is undeniably a much better player and if you give him some time in Stage 2 he is for sure going to be better than Crashies.

No. Nothing is for sure. Players come and go so fast in Valorant. Leo played on his prime level a full year ago. There is a complete lack of clarity in regards to his future performance. We have no recent data to support an argument in any direction. For Crashies we do. He has been stellar for FNC.

Unless you believe Leo is unable to reach Crashies' current form or better by Champs (which lets be for real he definitely is) then its totally reasonable.

This is your issue. You not basing anything on facts or logic. Youre just going off your gut feeling and dismissing the possibilty of the opposite outcome. Its not about: does Leo reach that level, yes or no. The point is Risk. Why opt for a path with an unclear outcome when you already are a top performer, the 2nd highest rated team in Toronto? By doing the Leo switch you simply open up the possibility of maybe not being a top perfomer anymore.

Besides, FNC themselves said Crashies is just subbing for Leo, so as soon as he's healthy and has time to reintegrate, its totally reasonable to assume he is going in.

They said that at the beginning of the season, yes. Just like BBL did for Magnum. What exactly do you think chiwa is doing for the rest of the year? If FNC win Toronto or make finals at least theres no chance Leo returns for FNC.

They hit a home run with this roster. The saying " never change a running system" exists for a reason.

You use the "companies" and "money" argument, do you really think FNC kept Leo in the bench and spent all this money on his recovery just to let him go like that?

What do you think "keeping him" means here buddy? Leo is contracted to FNC. They would have to pay him regardless of what they want. They cant fire him without paying him more money than just letting his contract run out would cost. So they were "stuck with him" no matter what in the worst case scenario. If FNC was lucky Leo could have come back much earlier and been an asset for them in the server. In hopes of this outcome it makes clear financial sense for them to support his recovery.

Also since they are already "stuck with him" no matter what. Whether that is on a legal basis or the terrible PR of firing a legend of the team they might as well maintain a positive relationship with him to increase the chances of him re-signing once he does get infact healthy or at least improve their reputation in the eyes of players in general and raise the attractivity of signing for the team to them.

What i meant is that Leo himself is likely attached to his ex-teamates and org for their support and would more than likely want to play with them again, i dont see how thats unreasonable to think.

From what we know he is good friends with Sayf (who might still stay there, we dont know yet) and Derke too. FNC themselves have also admitted that the team atmosphere was bad in 2024. interpret that however you will.

Also yes the players on VIT are good but if that meant anything VIT should be at Toronto shouldnt them? Good 5 players dont make a good team.

There is a difference between having good players and having a good team, yes. But you know what the funny thing is... bringing in Leo is an effort to ... you know... make a change. If Leo and the team believe that bringing in a player of his caliber and his calling qualities may result in fixing the teams structural issues then the team might drastically improve. The teams issue was bad IGLing. If theyre not outright making Leo the igl his secondary calling is quite likely an improvement compared to before.

Do you really think the safest option is going to a struggling team who is gonna pick a t2 IGL instead of the team that you know already works and can only get better with you entering?

"A struggling team" with some of the best players in the whole wide world. Their situation is very clear. Fix their bad calling style and this team can be really strong. So a T2 IGL, who is a decent player btw, might be all they need as long as the calling works. Like man... what is this judgemental attitude towards T2? Most of the best perfomers in EMEA came from T2 within the past year and a half. Also you keep trying to frame this as a choice by Leo only when FNC is a big factor too.

Lastly, there are some remaining factors at play here: Leo might want a bigger salary that Vitality is offering him. He might believe in the org Vitality for the longterm looking at Derke and Less being contracted until 2026 and Sayonara being brought in. The overall sense of ambition this org exudes at the moment. Also FNC might want to make some money off of him since this is the last chance to sell him. And since Vitality is probably quite desperate at the moment they might make a big buyout offer.

#22
Veri
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oh my god i underestimated you levels of arrongance and unemployment. Im not writing a 9 page document to argue with you.

All im saying is our main disagreement is weather Leo is able to reach the level of play that Crashies is on rn before champs, which its pretty fucking obvious in my opinion that yes he is. You say im arguing with "zero evidence" and "no facts or logic", brother we are talking about one of the best and most consistent players of all time, he is one of the best players in the world since the very beginning, of couse im gonna believe he can do it again stop playing dumb with this "nothing is for sure" argument. If anything Crashies is the outlier here since he hasnt played at this level since 2022 so HE is the one that you should worry will start underperforming eventually. Your "logic and facts" are recency biased, im taking into account 3 whole years of Valorant. You act like Crashies is playing like a demi-god but the funny thing is Crashies' performances are something 2023/2024 Leo would laught at and call average at best. Even 2022/21 Leo was playing better than current Crashies.

"They didnt have a choice" well of course they didnt but they spent the money anyway didnt they? Regardless of their choice its money they burned away if Leo doesnt play so it still doesnt change the fact that they will for sure want to keep him and make him play.

"You talk so much but understand so little." Fuck off with this all-mighty attitude. We were having a totally reasonable and friendly discussion and now you want to look down on me for no reason? Because you have more free time and can write a bigger paragraph than me? Stop being a clown

#23
SENfns
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current crashies is better than current leo whats so hard to understand about that you clown

#25
Veri
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Yeah because Leo is not even playing, give him a month to catch up to the pro level again and he is infinitely better than Crashies. Whats so hard to understand about that you idiot?

#26
SENfns
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1 month is too much you'd need to do it after champs and by then Leo's contract is over fucktard

#27
Veri
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?? Why do it after champs? Get him for Stage 2 which alone lasts more than a month. FNC will not be so harmed to the point of missing champs because of Leo's "bad form" (which i guarantee you will be very close to what Crashies is doing now)

Again it feels like you guys think Crashies is playing godly levels of Valorant. He's playing great but you all forget we are talking about possibly the best of all time. Every single version of Leo ever is MUCH better than current Crashies yet im wrong because i think one should replace the other eventually lmao ok whatever

#28
SENfns
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you being plat nullifies all these takes
its obvious you dont know how team cohesion works

#29
Veri
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Again, Leo played with the FNC core for more time than Crashies has, how can "team cohesion" be a significant problem lmao. Forget it im tired. Not answering this thread anymore

o-oh and uhmm... Im Diamond actually!! Just so you know... haha...

#31
pistolroundVyseUlt
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its been a year since leo played competitive, the meta has changed and the competition has changed.

he is now an unknown factor and u dont know even after u give him a month how well he'd perform

why would u sub out a well-performing crashies to take the possibility that leo would return and go back to his form?

#24
Congo1
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Be for real.

You asked me to give you the truth.

I think Leo is the greatest player of all time. I think with enough time he will reach his old level. I still think it would be a bad choice to swap him and Crashies unless they do badly at Toronto.

And even then. Vitality might pay you big money for a player who is out of contract in a few months. You might still deem it to be financially compelling to sell him before that date since they will get champs money no matter what.

Something you should ask yourself is: Why is Leo talking to Vitality since Trexx was dropped? Why is he trialing with them right now? Start from here. Either he is not getting the FNC spot or he just prefers Vitality. It is what it is

oh my god i underestimated you levels of arrongance and unemployment. Im not writing a 9 page document to argue with you. now you want to look down on me for no reason? Because you have more free time and can write a bigger paragraph than me?

No need to be so insecure about such a minor comment irmao.

#11
Cookierookie577
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how rich is vitality compared to fnatic? look at Vitality's CS teams they def have the money to buyout top 5 players

#15
Congo1
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They spend far more

#12
mxnu
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Cojo has said many times, as soon as Leo is ready to play, Crashies is getting benched. They trailed numerous people for the initiator spot after what happened to Leo, but nobody wanted it because they knew that as soon as Leo recovered, he would take the spot back, so I guess Crashies is fully aware of that.

#16
Congo1
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They said that at the beginning of the season, yes. Just like BBL did for Magnum. What exactly do you think chiwa is doing for the rest of the year? If FNC win Toronto or make finals at least theres no chance Leo returns for FNC.

They hit a home run with this roster. The saying " never change a running system" exists for a reason.

#17
idkmanwth
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"there's no chance leo returns for fnc" is a stretch

#18
TheOnion
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CoJo said in an interview that was posted like 2 weeks ago that they would still put leo back into the starting roster.

#19
Congo1
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I know, i have seen that. That was the official story they were running so far. Lets see what happens if they win Toronto. No need for him to close a door publicly unless he has to.

#20
TheOnion
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I’m getting what you mean though, I just feel like letting Crashies go would make more sense to themselves. Not because he is worse or anything. But because they might feel intimidated by letting Leo go because they know the chances of him making a team like vitality great is quite likely.

#21
Congo1
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on the other hand... due to champs point fnc is practically locked for champs. This however is the last chance to sell Leo. Even if Vit won EMEA it wouldnt mean much to fnc

#32
like
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I would be glad to see Leo play again, regardless of which team he joins.
If he's leaving FNC, then the color of the jersey I wear will simply change.

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