should riot drop a counter patch to fix 11.08 or what? like at this point the game is cooked and giant teams like Fnatic NRG G2 mibr heretics ... cant even stay consistent because the pacing is so off. keeping smoke and initiator cooldowns so high literally killed dynamic plays and forces u to just dry swing everything once ur util is spent. instead of nerfing every duelist that dominates the meta like neon yoru and phoenix now riot needs to make a counter patch where they give controllers and initiators back shorter cooldowns and buff sentinels so sites can actually be held properly. do u guys think riot should drop a hotfix to save the meta or is this just how val is gonna be now?
patch 11.03
posted in
Valorant Discussion
bro u missed the whole point of the post trying to debate team titles instead of looking at the actual problem. im not calling them historic and big orgs or whatever, im saying on paper they have stacked rosters with big players that were expected to perform way better than they actually did this year.
MIBR have arguably the greatest player / the largest name playing for them and Heretics have been top 5 bundle sales worldwide for years despite playing in the lowest viewership region, not a crazy take at all
If a team can't adapt in time, that really is on them.
As for the duelist nerfs, I think it made sense for yoru and imo he is in a good spot rn. Phoenix also seems fine to me, 6 orbs for essentially a drone that can also shoot back and use util seemed a bit too much. As for neon, I have always been of the opinion that her abilities just do NOT fit in a tac-fps so imo she needs a complete rework
but is it not literally their job to be good at the game? Like you are getting paid to be better than other teams, who are dealing with the same meta.
Some team are advantaged by other meta, people need to understand that human being are not interchangeable piece where the only things that count is aim and/or meta read
so what then? should every team that does bad in a meta just write a complaint to riot so they change the meta in their favour?
Meta shouldn't be shit, meta shouldn't change before event (2 mapool change right before champion is a scandal)
the map pool changes before champs are dumb, but we've been in this fast, double duelist meta this entire year and fnc for example just failed to adapt and that is not anyone's fault but theirs.
I'm not trying to defends FNC specifically, I'm saying I dislike this argument in general x)
I agree that big changes right before a tournament are dumb, but when some teams are doing better in a meta than others, even if the 'others' are teams that were historically very consistent, that does not mean the meta is bad.
NRG is quite consistent, also, ain't no way you're blaming the meta for those teams not being too good anymore XD other than NRG who are still good, but MIBR have never been that good, only good/decent
NRG played off meta comps for most of the first half of the year so u cant even look at them like that. once they started playing the meta they still found problems with mada on the neon but true at least they been consistent and good just not in their best form so even they arent totally fine in this patch
Neon needs a rework. Nobody can reliably counter accurate slide and the ult is still broken. Nerf went in the wrong direction.
neon air strafe speed was valid, but neon as you said, in her current state does not fit in a tac-fps, so if they don't rework her, they can either leave her playstyle as it or nerf her to the point she is no longer playable
I don’t mind giving air strafe speed back if slide and ult are nerfed to where they aren’t automatically a free kill. Almost every neon ult I see is good for 2-3 against pro teams.
"doesn't fit a tac fps" is such cope
Neon has a unique and skillful niche as a gap closer. Her entire threat is that if you get caught out of position or hit by a debuff, the punish will be much more consistent, and so you have to respect your opponent's gameplan more
It's a lot more honest to tactical play than Waylay and Chamber, who can take incalculable risks and teleport to safety instead of getting punished
Sure thing bro. The character that can shoot while moving (even faster than base speed) perfectly fits in the game where you can't shoot while moving and where shooting more than a few bullets at a time heavily punishes you.
You literally can shoot while moving and pros do it all the time. Neon is not accurate at long range
Raze has been in the game since release btw
except raze is infinitely more inaccurate while using her satchels. Plus raze can't just stop mid-air and become accurate enough to the point that shooting at close to mid range pretty much guarantees you a kill unless you whiff horrifically, while neon can just slide on you after a jump. Also neon is far more self-sufficient than raze or waylay since she can just stun for herself while keeping the full movement boost. So no neon and raze are not the same. And the pros shooting while moving is literally a bronze take. IF they are full moving it is literally only at close range or they are simply strafing super fast
Pros will run and gun with smg/phantom within around 7 meters which is also about where neon's slide is reliably accurate. Any farther than that and they may try shooting while sliding but the accurate shot won't be until she stops moving. You know like a raze satcheling
bro neon literally used to have two slides and crazier movement before and nobody was picking her like this. her kit is a bit broken but we only notice it now because sentinels are too weak to stall site hits in this meta
yes, sentinels are significantly weaker than they used to be, but I will never agree on the fact that neon does not need a rework. It does not matter if only 1 person or half the playerbase plays neon, her kit does not fit, it never did and never will. This is a character straight out of apex legends. If sentinels like cypher were in their pre-nerf state, sure it would be more difficult for a duelist like neon to get value on site-entries specifically, but in a straight 1v1 her kit is still very problematic, so even if they buffed sentinels back to what they were, she would still be a bad fit at best for this game. Not to mention the fact that at a pro level, teams are really good at clearing senti util before going in.
You can counter neon by just getting better tracking and holding wider when you hear the footsteps
The problem is half the pro playerbase is geriatric cs rejects still so they can only hold normal distances from angles
The ult isn’t broken, it is literally an ultimate ability and within a round it gets like 1 or 2 people on average
There are ults that are just as effective in impacting the round outcomes compared to a neon ult
If anything the fuel part needs the nerf since neon is still allowed to break timings easily
11.08 has already been backtracked a lot. Cooldowns are good the way they are (except Astra's)
40s init cooldowns were more thoughtless than they were tactical bc it was the norm to just launch util on round start and go down a flowchart. 50s is just enough of a cost to require analysis before committing the util
What does need to be undone is the stun nerf though. 2.5s is just stupid for any agent not named Neon to consistently capitalize on. And it turns out most agents with stuns are the underpowered ones right now
Part of the issue is that neon’s stun is the only stun actually easy to hit. Breach, astra, gekko, tejo, deadlock, and skye have straight buns abilities in actually trying to stun someone.
I mentioned Neon because of the slide actually. It's unreliable to secure a stun kill with normal movement if they're not peeking into you.
But all those agents do also have specific reasons for their stuns being mediocre even outside of the general nerf
Saying 40s cooldowns is "thoughtless" is kinda stupid imo
A shorter cooldown enables better adaptation in the midround
If you use a sova dart immediately on round start, you used to be able to wait 40 seconds, and have it back, allowing you something like 20-15 seconds to make an adaptation based on the midround information you obtained, which is enough time to rotate a significant distance. (without a spike plant a round is 100 seconds long)
On top of that that means you get like a 20-15 second window assuming a late spike plant to use another dart for the postplant/retake.
With the 50 second cooldowns, doing the exact same thing leaves you a whopping ZERO seconds to do anything with the information of the 2nd dart usage pre spike plant, and the spike will be down already unless the attackers couldn't get it down already. There is much less incentive to play out a slow and tactically deep round because you literally don't get the tools to do so.
Teams are opting for deathballs and full retakes in this meta because using signature initiator utility on anything but an execute and retake risks you just never getting it back when you need it. The patch didn't fix the tactical depth, it literally made util impossible to use on anything but early round, retake, execute, and post plant. The opportunity cost of utility increasing doesn't improve the tactical depth, it makes it significantly worse.
you can don’t like the meta but the argument that a team can’t use it is not a good one cause other team can
so fnatic lose, out of champions, and you blame the meta huh
i would say this meta is alr quite balance, no more abusive utill and shotguns, it's more aim focus, any team suffer through it just lack of the basic of this game, which is clicking head
and any team that still have that one igl being a botfrag to just focusing on team strat will not doing good, you need to fight with your team, any trade is matter
its not about fnatic i belive that the meta its not the main problem for them its about the game state its to fast not entertaiment in watching it and as for shotguns mostly abused in this meta idk what u talking about that cuz it literally had to be nerfd , again riot nerfing every thing that pop up in this meta rather than buffing what lack this meta u cant say its balanced when a hole role in the game become useless valorant had diff metas and fnatic warnt good at all of them and i didnt have problem with that this meta take what makes valorant valorant its just who out aim the enemy like when we watch team we say why they are peaking one by one i cant put the blame on the player 100% that what the meta reward u for just dry swing
and about boaster bottom fragging literally the first half of the year especially on stage 1 boaster was literally top fragging at fnatic
yeah this is NOT cs. the way that people without aim could get value with util usage was great. it was the most healthy meta before 11.08. riot really fucked up. now stuns are shit. sentinels are shit and there is no fix in sight.
just think abt it. when did the yoru neon spam shit come? after 11.08. when did the retake meta come?after 11.08. all of this for more gun play? yeah fuck no
Ok guys ill fix the game, cypher gets kill trips back, vyse gets info back on flash but keep the fact that u can shoot it, scan cooldowns stay at 50 other initiators 40 and make tejo rockets regen 1 at a time and phoenix wall shorter than defuse time
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