An attempt to make harbor better

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#1
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Note : if you do not agree with whatever is in this post, this is not objective fact. 
CONSTRUCTIVE discussion to build a refined idea would be nice... 
Except this is vlr so if you're that goblin moded. I feel bad for whoever cares about you. 
Be useful to the discussion 

The obvious ones:

  1. High Tide no longer slows Allies
    I dont think i have to explain further. We have a literal Poison Gas Wall that does not decay allies... Why would a water wall do that
  2. Cascade style smokes need to come back
    Me atleast, i loved using it in my strategies for allowing a duelist to push up aggressively clearing the side lanes with their forward side free of attack. I'm not sure if i should replace storm surge or cove but they should come back
    Really fit the controller initiator identity super well

So my theoretical ideas
Variant A) Replace the Storm surge with a single cascade, make it a mini harbor ult where it is a wall that ONLY nearsights players hit by it. And you can pause it, leading it to last for 2.5s before fading. It shouldn't be a full smoke, that is its design, it's designed to get you through a choke point, clearing close angles while wiping out farther ones.
Basically a better omen paranoia. Maybe even add a charging mechanic like breach that way you can precisely align it to your interests, and the E reuse could allow it to become bulletproof for those 2.5s (though the E reuse does not necessarily need to be used like this)
While yes it seems broken and i can agree... Idk, it seems balancable.
Or
Variant B) Replace the Cove with this Cascade.
Then you would make the Cascade do what I'd call a Tunnel Vision effect where the peripheral vision is decreased, central vision remains. And the Cascade would have 2 charges, where when you pause it, it would be invulnerable to bullets for 6s, and would slow the same as high tide.
Or
Variant C) Allow us to swap storm surge and cascade using the RELOAD button while its equipped. Probably the easiest idea. Give it two charges, and boom it probably works. Basically allows you to play either variant based on choice, which kinda matches astra's versatility, except more aggro

Either variant in my mind works

#2
BIGFNCGLAZER
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Harburrr pretty decent rn

#4
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Thats why I said "better"

#3
kyousukeluvr
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they should make it so that it gives a fade scan when you use the water wall

#6
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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That would be too broken let's be real

#8
kyousukeluvr
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it would be pretty funny

#19
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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It would be funny true
Like a water trail cuz they're... wet

#5
melon_fan
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i think harbor is good, meta is just dominated by double duelist (g2 were ahead of their time)

#7
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Its why i said better
The 1st one is just the obvious change
The 2nd one i gave 2 variants cuz cascade of old harbor was what made harbor so fun in my opinion to play as that init support charactet

#9
cloudberry
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Point 1 is straightforward and point 2 is just "old Harbor had a better identity let's give him that back"

Fwiw I mained old Harbor (>500 games) I absolutely agree old Harbor had a way better identity and he needs it restored immediately

#10
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Honestly the cove change was great, but the Cascade was just so useful and unique.
And honestly Harbor was probably the only controller who alongside a recon init like fade or skye could support a waylay diving in solo

#11
cloudberry
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New Cove is useful (I mean of course it is it's a dome smoke you can't go wrong with it)

But, like... what was Harbor's identity? What did his kit revolve around? Map control. Taking space, fighting for space. High Tide was used for sectioning off parts of the map in unique ways no other agent could replicate, and the cascade was arguably the best space taking / scaling ability in the entire game. Wtf is new Harbor's identity? "Worse Omen"?

#12
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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All harbor is now is an omen except he cant tp but can smoke like brim if positioned right

#13
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Bump for feedback

#14
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Bump for feedback

#15
GarbanzoEnjoyer
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I mained Harbor before and after the rework and he's truly much better now. High tide shouldn't slow teammates sure but that doesn't matter very much.

The problem with old Harbor is it was just a lot to have three unique types of smoke, none of which could be cast at range. The advantages of cascade were overstated and it was the obvious one to go. There's no way to implement cascade into his current kit (beyond the ult) that isn't broken (like your A suggestion which just gaps paranoia) or plain clunky (other suggestions I've read to make it an alt-fire of something else).

Harbor does not need any further buffs, but if we were to give him one, I'd start with the ability to break cove on demand by pressing E again when it's shielded, or a different deployment type for storm surge that allows it to be sent past walls like a breach stun (I mean why would water be thrown anyway)

What used to be cascade should just be added to a new controller agent who synergizes their kit around mobile smokes

#16
GarbanzoEnjoyer
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I also want to add that Harbor has a stronger identity post-rework than he did before!

He's firmly an info-gathering and duel-isolating controller, while his previous identity was kinda just "throw smokes at the problem and hope you don't get spammed."

#17
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Honestly I'll agree that storm surge was always a great tool to add. Ive played harbor and he's less smokes more actual catalytics, these are just improvements. Its why i deliberately said better. He's decent in his position and if they dont do much I'll be fine.
But what i find is that Old harbor made actually breaking into sites for a duelist far easier with cascade. Sure the range was shitty and stuff ill agree. But the actual smoke that moves, was very good at covering the front side for a duelist and their team.

Its why i proposed variant A making it like paranoia but as is obvious i already did recognize how op it would be
And variant B to replace cove also existed but then it introduced the new problem of how to smoke at range.

Idk like Cascade was always super useful at least as a break in tool with a controller lean on it. But any replacement of harbor's tools inherently causes issues like either being too broken for 1 ability or removing solutions

#18
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Variant C) Allow us to swap storm surge and cascade using the RELOAD button while its equipped. Probably the easiest idea. Give it two charges, and boom it probably works. Basically allows you to play either variant based on choice, which kinda matches astra's versatility, except more aggro

Probably the most basic of my ideas, simply allow switching between Storm surge and cascade, both will give info, one does nearsight+slow other gives smoke+slow.
Its extremely basic but yet very powerful cuz it allows choice

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