Should we start worrying about EMEA?

This is not a troll post, not ragebait, but a genuine question. EMEA hasn't won a trophy since 2023, when Fnatic won b2b. Since then, only 2 teams have gotten close to winning trophies again: FNC and Heretics. EMEA is at an all-time low viewership-wise, and I can't help but feel it's partially due to the fact that EMEA isn't really ever in contention for tournaments right now. Unless Fnatic shows up in white-hot form, the region is almost entirely written off from the start of a tournament. How does Riot even go about fixing this? Is the region just cooked until an EMEA team goes on a miracle run and reignites the passion for the fans?

It's deffo the lack of IGL's coming up for the region. The only name that really inspires a lot of confidence in their actual calling ability rn from tier 2 is iluri other than that EMEA tier 2 is mostly a firepower game

I think the reason for that is that any tactically minded young FPS player from Europe is always gonna pick CS over Valorant. It's a much more stable game in terms of meta and is more like chess in the sense that the fundamentals and strategy of the game have largely remained the same for decades and it's a lot easier to find long term success, whereas the agent additions and patch cycles and agent changes of Valorant make it a lot more unpredictable and doesn't guarantee you'll be able to have a grasp of the best strategies for longer than a few months at a time.

The reason I think this only really affects EMEA is because of how utterly dead any region besides Europe is at CS so you always see Asian or North American FPS players pick Valorant if they want to go pro

For EMEA, I am pretty sure we all know its because the talents will always go towards CS since that is the main game over there while for the rest of the world if they want a tact FPS to go pro into it would be Valorant but thats just due to EMEA being the only region that is competing in CS while the other regions absolutely suck at it. Having a single team win 5 tournaments in a row just isnt my cup of tea to even keep watching anymore. The viewership probably isn't due to them not winning but the fact that even on the fast game it feels very slow compared to AMER/APAC/CHINA. The only games that really come close is when TL decides to just go full speed no stop comps. However when it is slow, it is hard to stay awake to watch or even be invested and then you hear the listen-in and its like "WTF THIS IS SO CHAOTIC" or "Damn this is a library" or the rare chance of someone saying they dont care about the map pick since its the opponents one and then getting 13-0'd on their own map pick after which is funny

SiwooHaechok [#3]

For EMEA, I am pretty sure we all know its because the talents will always go towards CS since that is the main game over there while for the rest of the world if they want a tact FPS to go pro into it would be Valorant but thats just due to EMEA being the only region that is competing in CS while the other regions absolutely suck at it. Having a single team win 5 tournaments in a row just isnt my cup of tea to even keep watching anymore. The viewership probably isn't due to them not winning but the fact that even on the fast game it feels very slow compared to AMER/APAC/CHINA. The only games that really come close is when TL decides to just go full speed no stop comps. However when it is slow, it is hard to stay awake to watch or even be invested and then you hear the listen-in and its like "WTF THIS IS SO CHAOTIC" or "Damn this is a library" or the rare chance of someone saying they dont care about the map pick since its the opponents one and then getting 13-0'd on their own map pick after which is funny

interesting take i hadnt thought about this before

i agree that cs2 is the bigger game here but i think valorant has established itself as pretty large too and as a growing scene with a lot of potential, so i dont think you can really blame it that too much

my-dad-ate-my-toes [#2]

It's deffo the lack of IGL's coming up for the region. The only name that really inspires a lot of confidence in their actual calling ability rn from tier 2 is iluri other than that EMEA tier 2 is mostly a firepower game

I think the reason for that is that any tactically minded young FPS player from Europe is always gonna pick CS over Valorant. It's a much more stable game in terms of meta and is more like chess in the sense that the fundamentals and strategy of the game have largely remained the same for decades and it's a lot easier to find long term success, whereas the agent additions and patch cycles and agent changes of Valorant make it a lot more unpredictable and doesn't guarantee you'll be able to have a grasp of the best strategies for longer than a few months at a time.

The reason I think this only really affects EMEA is because of how utterly dead any region besides Europe is at CS so you always see Asian or North American FPS players pick Valorant if they want to go pro

Well In CS there is also a lack of IGLs right now

SiwooHaechok [#3]

For EMEA, I am pretty sure we all know its because the talents will always go towards CS since that is the main game over there while for the rest of the world if they want a tact FPS to go pro into it would be Valorant but thats just due to EMEA being the only region that is competing in CS while the other regions absolutely suck at it. Having a single team win 5 tournaments in a row just isnt my cup of tea to even keep watching anymore. The viewership probably isn't due to them not winning but the fact that even on the fast game it feels very slow compared to AMER/APAC/CHINA. The only games that really come close is when TL decides to just go full speed no stop comps. However when it is slow, it is hard to stay awake to watch or even be invested and then you hear the listen-in and its like "WTF THIS IS SO CHAOTIC" or "Damn this is a library" or the rare chance of someone saying they dont care about the map pick since its the opponents one and then getting 13-0'd on their own map pick after which is funny

we all know its because the talents

EMEA doesn't have a talent problem, they have a roster building problem. Instead of forming superteams, our top players are scattered across the whole region. Fnatic was the only team that managed to grab the undisputed best guy for every role, which is why they dominated. Because the talent is so spread out, the average EMEA team is probably better than the average PAC or AMER team. But being uniformly good doesn't win trophies it just makes the region boringly decent while top-heavy teams from other regions take the W

FNS_KITTEN [#6]

we all know its because the talents

EMEA doesn't have a talent problem, they have a roster building problem. Instead of forming superteams, our top players are scattered across the whole region. Fnatic was the only team that managed to grab the undisputed best guy for every role, which is why they dominated. Because the talent is so spread out, the average EMEA team is probably better than the average PAC or AMER team. But being uniformly good doesn't win trophies it just makes the region boringly decent while top-heavy teams from other regions take the W

rare correct take on VLR

n0sey [#5]

Well In CS there is also a lack of IGLs right now

There's a fuck of a lot more up and coming ones in EU rn than Val tho

ztr, LNZ, Chr1zN, Krabeni, Gizmy, alex666, twist

Compared to basically one guy who I'd be confident calling at a high level in Valorant

FNS_KITTEN [#6]

we all know its because the talents

EMEA doesn't have a talent problem, they have a roster building problem. Instead of forming superteams, our top players are scattered across the whole region. Fnatic was the only team that managed to grab the undisputed best guy for every role, which is why they dominated. Because the talent is so spread out, the average EMEA team is probably better than the average PAC or AMER team. But being uniformly good doesn't win trophies it just makes the region boringly decent while top-heavy teams from other regions take the W

the average emea team is NOT better than the average apac or Americas team. Idk what you have been watching but the region looks shit all throughout. The only thing you could say is MAYBE pcf is the best worst team but even that is a stretch

KOLLLY [#9]

the average emea team is NOT better than the average apac or Americas team. Idk what you have been watching but the region looks shit all throughout. The only thing you could say is MAYBE pcf is the best worst team but even that is a stretch

this year they look awful but keep in mind this is EMEA's worst meta ever, in previous years this statement was true

my-dad-ate-my-toes [#2]

It's deffo the lack of IGL's coming up for the region. The only name that really inspires a lot of confidence in their actual calling ability rn from tier 2 is iluri other than that EMEA tier 2 is mostly a firepower game

I think the reason for that is that any tactically minded young FPS player from Europe is always gonna pick CS over Valorant. It's a much more stable game in terms of meta and is more like chess in the sense that the fundamentals and strategy of the game have largely remained the same for decades and it's a lot easier to find long term success, whereas the agent additions and patch cycles and agent changes of Valorant make it a lot more unpredictable and doesn't guarantee you'll be able to have a grasp of the best strategies for longer than a few months at a time.

The reason I think this only really affects EMEA is because of how utterly dead any region besides Europe is at CS so you always see Asian or North American FPS players pick Valorant if they want to go pro

that's just because emea plays more CS in general, it's not like igl prospects look at cs and val and decide "I'd rather play cs because it's more stable." they're just more inclined to cs because they've played it more and liked it more since they were young

SiwooHaechok [#3]

For EMEA, I am pretty sure we all know its because the talents will always go towards CS since that is the main game over there while for the rest of the world if they want a tact FPS to go pro into it would be Valorant but thats just due to EMEA being the only region that is competing in CS while the other regions absolutely suck at it. Having a single team win 5 tournaments in a row just isnt my cup of tea to even keep watching anymore. The viewership probably isn't due to them not winning but the fact that even on the fast game it feels very slow compared to AMER/APAC/CHINA. The only games that really come close is when TL decides to just go full speed no stop comps. However when it is slow, it is hard to stay awake to watch or even be invested and then you hear the listen-in and its like "WTF THIS IS SO CHAOTIC" or "Damn this is a library" or the rare chance of someone saying they dont care about the map pick since its the opponents one and then getting 13-0'd on their own map pick after which is funny

the fast game argument doesn't make sense this year honestly, emea has generally been playing a fairly fast execute heavy play style this year. if anything i see way more defaulting in americas. part of the reason emea isn't being highly rated right now is because they're playing a play style they haven't typically been the best at.

also last week saw of the numbers, the emea playerbase was similar to americas and apac iirc so I don't think CS is the reason either. I think it's a roster building problem like one of the guys said above. Part of it is that a lot of players have more org loyalty or value stability to put it bluntly. take a player like cloud, he's been on giants for years and they've mostly been shit, if he was in americas he probably would've gone to another team. or you could even look at nats.

the exceptions of this would be chronicle/derke but we know how that turned out

I think the current state of EMEA is mostly due to the current meta and what has been meta for nearly a year now. EMEA's playstyle historically trends way more towards the classic double init/double smokes solo duelist, with an heavy emphasis on defaulting and working the map. It is the total opposite of the way the game is played right now and most of EMEA is simply unable to adapt to that because of a cultural and historical incompatibility with the current meta style, outside of a few outliers. Once the meta goes back more towards what we had in 2024, it should get better for EMEA, and it will happen eventually as metas cycle regularly, it's mostly a matter of time.

Now to me that is the big reason for EMEA's struggle and the sloppiness of their gameplay, but it's far from being the only issue in the region.

• First I think we all need to remember that EMEA has never been all that since franchising. The peak of EMEA was in 2024, probably at Shanghai, but Leo's illness robbed EMEA from another big contender and brought them back to being a 1 team region like in 2023. Simply put, I don't think we should except EMEA to reach an imaginary level that has quite honestly never existed and that is being kinda fantazised, even when the meta gets back towards a more comfortable spot for the region.
• The other point is that there are, in EMEA more than in any other region, teams who are not willing to do what it takes to win. Wether it is by pure budgetary choice, by wanting to stick with old rascals who have never proven anything, or (partly) because of exterior reasons that are not entirely controllable by teams and orgs, there are several cases of teams not putting themselves in the ideal spot to win and reach the highest level. This includes both roster moves and coaching staff decisions. To put this kindly; EMEA's management is fradulent to say the least

There's a lot of reasons, salaries being lower means we lose coaches and players to other regions, after south America we struggle the most with visas, the tier 2 system allows the beat teams to not have to play other good teams often, the split individual tier2 leagues kinda just suck for developing talent imo and kinda fucks up scouting, sure you have the tournaments where everyone plays each other but form becomes such a factor in those because it's so few matches, it's why the sort by rating find Turkish flag meme became a thing cause that league was competitive so you knew the players doing well in it were good, then you have the shitty roster building, hiro and ruxic are both top 10 in our region at worst, stuck on a dead team, half our veteran superstars are on a non functional team that barely scraped playoffs and the other half are in fucking tier 2, sayf was one of the best fucking duelists in our league and he's not even on a team right now, same is true of fucking trexx, a scan that at his peak is top 2 in the region isn't even playing, your telling me when Navi was making their roster this year they didn't go sayf duelist, ruxic smokes, hiro flex, trexx scan, find a senti igl you have an actual fucking superteam, individual orga seem to have incredible players in jail and then can't build around them so we have players literally doing nothing despite being consistently highest rated in our league, and then the lack of igls isnt as bad as ppl make it out to be, unfair still around, Enzo still around, redgar still around, not the greatest options sure, but better than playing fucking avez igling on pheonix