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SEN most likely wont keep their form (serious)

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#1
cartixuzi

this isn't a bait thread btw, ive been seeing a few of those lately, this is a ramble post tho

the meta in this game is a lot more important than you think honestly. Teams with the earliest meta reads almost always perform better than those who are still lagging behind, and this sort of rule is even more present down the line as the teams with the early reads go on to refine themselves and their gameplay. LOUD performed to their peak during LOCK//IN despite it being an entirely new meta after the death of Chamber that they just won Champs with, they are the prime example of what makes a great team great, their ability to ACTUALLY prove that they can adapt to a world-class level.

SEN on the other hand found themselves questioning their comps during must-win matches in Americas especially after convincing losses, they lagged out finding their place on certain maps due to uncertainty, and the lack of proper igling can be both seen as the outcome AND at the same the problem to this issue (seeing dephh's success last year on XSET however, it wouldn't be crazy to lean towards the former). Too little change though is also bad at the same time of course, 100T during the same tourney is that example.

SEN didn't suddenly become greek gods or whatever, the comps that are currently being ran (mainly around Cypher) is the meta they've adopted and even popularized to the T since the start of the pre season. They found their comfort that works best optimally and have been seeing abnormal growth because of it. Teamplay and coordination becomes way easier and more relaxed as a result, and if this meta continued then these guys are obviously gonna be top tier for 2024.

But the issue I'm addressing is that we're very obviously going to see another meta change heading into VCT 2024. These guys found their shit at the worst time possible, because now they gotta do it all over again but this time during the pressure of the actual ongoing season. If they lag behind, they're gonna be fucked and its going to be visible. What they showed from us is their performance with a great meta read which looks really insane btw, but then again it's honestly a certainty that their current form will change (for the better if that's even possible or most likely for the worst) once Kick Off begins.

what we've seen from them so far have only been good news, but that can all crumble down within two weeks give or take, hell it's even possible that they've gotten too comfortable with the current meta now. If they performed like this during the start of VCT, then they're pretty much set for the rest of the year because we rarely see heavy meta shifts during a season, but this is the off season unfortunately lol.

#2
NeePochuPa
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allat

#3
ionlyHave1Zuni
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If the igling and coaching are great and quick to understand and adapt what is needed i think they wont suffer at all, + all the 5 players have atleast 2 years of competitive and are all top tier at their roles, i dont see them falling odf bcz of meta

#4
funny_prank
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bro is actually cooking

#5
Eyedd
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TLDR; idk, I ain’t readin allat

#6
Schizophrenic_Brazil_Fan
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So, they showed they are good at playing the defined meta, but haven’t created anything, which caps their skill level since a top team can overwhelm them with new metas?

Interesting argument
Don’t agree nor disagree, but if 2024 proves this then you will be a man with a huge W in analyzing

#7
cartixuzi
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ionlyHave1Zuni [#3]

If the igling and coaching are great and quick to understand and adapt what is needed i think they wont suffer at all, + all the 5 players have atleast 2 years of competitive and are all top tier at their roles, i dont see them falling odf bcz of meta

past results are important for claims like that, you really cant shoot the gun that quickly with the coaching staff from what we know of them so far + the two year of competitive experience isn't really that big of a deal in all honesty. I do agree they're top tier players but they were also just that at the start of 2023. JohnQT's igling has also been crazy good as well ngl, but dephh igl'd XSET to a very successful year and look at what happened to him lol.

#8
ionlyHave1Zuni
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cartixuzi [#7]

past results are important for claims like that, you really cant shoot the gun that quickly with the coaching staff from what we know of them so far + the two year of competitive experience isn't really that big of a deal in all honesty. I do agree they're top tier players but they were also just that at the start of 2023. JohnQT's igling has also been crazy good as well ngl, but dephh igl'd XSET to a very successful year and look at what happened to him lol.

They didnt even play 5 matches in a row without changing the roster or coaching staff in 2023, like its impossible for any of the players to peform at their highest level when they dont even know who they will be playing with,

  • I said "if", if kaplan and drewspark are frauds sen are cooked on meta changes
#9
cartixuzi
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Schizophrenic_Brazil_Fan [#6]

So, they showed they are good at playing the defined meta, but haven’t created anything, which caps their skill level since a top team can overwhelm them with new metas?

Interesting argument
Don’t agree nor disagree, but if 2024 proves this then you will be a man with a huge W in analyzing

pretty much, and its not like the teams that could potentially overwhelm them have to be top tier. I also feel like SEN in particular are more subjugated to a fall off just by looking at the team's history of in-season roster changes. This year's format has given teams more chances to come back and raise their champ points, but if SEN underperform the opening tournament "drastically" then we probably won't see the same 5 players adapt as the season progresses into champs together without a roster move to keep the fans happy.

#10
cartixuzi
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ionlyHave1Zuni [#8]

They didnt even play 5 matches in a row without changing the roster or coaching staff in 2023, like its impossible for any of the players to peform at their highest level when they dont even know who they will be playing with,

  • I said "if", if kaplan and drewspark are frauds sen are cooked on meta changes

the fact that they kept swapping their rosters is part of that uncertainty the team went through during the season, it's just another part of the problem im trying to address. It IS very unlikely for the players to perform at their highest level with constant roster changes, but not only are these decisions greenlit by the coaching staff, its been the team's direct response when faced with heavy and disappointing results.

#11
Shawn23
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cartixuzi [#7]

past results are important for claims like that, you really cant shoot the gun that quickly with the coaching staff from what we know of them so far + the two year of competitive experience isn't really that big of a deal in all honesty. I do agree they're top tier players but they were also just that at the start of 2023. JohnQT's igling has also been crazy good as well ngl, but dephh igl'd XSET to a very successful year and look at what happened to him lol.

but dephh igl'd XSET to a very successful year and look at what happened to him lol.

such a bad take. the teams problems were only IGLing but conflict of roles and what not. and + Depph wasnt the only igl on that team him and ayrin both IGLed and on that sen team at thew start of 2023 they had no secondary IGL from a outside prospective.

This team has no role issues and anyone on this team can swap roles and play other agents. + A REAL IGL, and Zellsis can Co - IGL or even sacy. this team is just way better then last seasons team lmao.

#12
WhoseTao
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cartixuzi [#10]

the fact that they kept swapping their rosters is part of that uncertainty the team went through during the season, it's just another part of the problem im trying to address. It IS very unlikely for the players to perform at their highest level with constant roster changes, but not only are these decisions greenlit by the coaching staff, its been the team's direct response when faced with heavy and disappointing results.

I disagree, for one having 3 really good flexes (johnqt, zekken and zellsis), semi-good flex (tenz) and sacy (plays ini and ini will alway sbe meta so doesnt matter), essentially sets them up to be really flexible however the meta changes. Also, dephh went high during the most fraud era of valorant, in chamber season the better team didn't win, the team with the better chamber won. All of those games, start to finish revolved around all util to remove chamber and then site execs. Or setting your chamber aggressively with an op and letting him solo anchor. Cryo is still one of the best chambers and op users anyways, it is not surprising xset went far considering great players couldn't even get into international events because their team couldn't adapt to the chamber meta

#13
OkOkay
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so they wont keep their form because theres a chance any team in the league wont be in good form?

#14
Prontera
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Yappin

#15
j3bx5597
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spittin.
however, they are all so flexible (outside of maybe tenz) so idt that they will face any problems
johnqt on perma senti hes fine.
zekken is gods gift to duelists, insane mechs, can play every duelist ever created.
sacy recon initiator is better than his skye, so if skye falls out of meta, hes still fine.
zellsis is p good too. not too worried about their prospects after a meta shift

#16
cartixuzi
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Shawn23 [#11]

but dephh igl'd XSET to a very successful year and look at what happened to him lol.

such a bad take. the teams problems were only IGLing but conflict of roles and what not. and + Depph wasnt the only igl on that team him and ayrin both IGLed and on that sen team at thew start of 2023 they had no secondary IGL from a outside prospective.

This team has no role issues and anyone on this team can swap roles and play other agents. + A REAL IGL, and Zellsis can Co - IGL or even sacy. this team is just way better then last seasons team lmao.

ok bud relax lol

#17
noxx
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j3bx5597 [#15]

spittin.
however, they are all so flexible (outside of maybe tenz) so idt that they will face any problems
johnqt on perma senti hes fine.
zekken is gods gift to duelists, insane mechs, can play every duelist ever created.
sacy recon initiator is better than his skye, so if skye falls out of meta, hes still fine.
zellsis is p good too. not too worried about their prospects after a meta shift

agree with everything but cmon tenz is also flexible now, he is swapping roles with zellsis whenever possible and from the words of the great egg himself "tenz is the greatest yoru on bind in the whole world"

#18
neID
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they will still have their best form ever even if it will become worse

#19
ItsHunter
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ionlyHave1Zuni [#3]

If the igling and coaching are great and quick to understand and adapt what is needed i think they wont suffer at all, + all the 5 players have atleast 2 years of competitive and are all top tier at their roles, i dont see them falling odf bcz of meta

To be fair tho the reason ghost fell off so hard is because they had a really late read on the meta and didn't adapt fast enough so they weren't able to perform. That was the combo of johnqt and Kaplan so who knows it might happen again

#20
AsterXD
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Right now it doesnt look like the meta is going to change very severely as there isnt an agent that is as OP as old Chamber. At the start of 2023 there was a huge meta shift due to 2 reasons : (i) Chamber got nerfed hard making him not viable on most of the maps. (ii) Harbor was introduced and he had good util.
We didnt have any agent absolutely dominating and getting free kills this year and the new agents we got are Deadlock and ISO ☠️There will certainly be new interesting comps coming next year but the old comps will still be relevant and wont feel like those comps fell off meta.

Sentinels definetly wont have the meta change problem because, first of all they defined meta on sunset which means theyve a very good idea on the meta. and second they are a veryyy flexible team, even in the past few months we saw tenz go from initiator main to controller player, pancada out zellsis in- its not like they had the most consistency role wise.

The reason why Sentinels will be good next year is because during afreeca TV they showed every player was fundamentally good and understood team play and team fighting. It looked like every single person was on the same page following the game plan which is far more important than sticking to meta. Proof of which is old FPX (NAVI), they didnt play a single meta comp during 2022 but they won a championship because the players made a really good team.

#21
LouBag
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This is a solid take.

TLDR:
Being good in the off season doesn’t mean you will be good when the season starts because of the large patch that happens before kickoff.

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