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Who are the biggest stats inflators?
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Leo had 147 deaths in Champs and only 8 were first deaths, i think the guy's still cracked but u cant tell me his stats arent inflated by a lot of trade and garbage kills. It gets worse cus the guy had 7 FDs out of 172 deaths in Sao Paulo, 17 FDs out of 307 deaths in the EMEA League, and 2 FD's for the entirety of Tokyo lol.
34 FDs out of 728 for the entirety of VCT 2023. It's easy to look like the perfect player when you're letting your team do 99% of all the risks lol, it's why his FK count is also really low. Alfa who's putting relatively the same KDs is showing up with way more FDs in each tourney because the guy simply takes WAY more risks than Leo and still strives under it.
Leo plays his role the best in the world; he doesn't have many first deaths but does that mean he doesn't take risks? No, just like the majority of controllers and info initiators, he takes a lot of risks; they just don't come in the first engagement of the round because he's usually finding information or setting someone else up to, that's his primary role before anything else. He also wins many more of the first (and all) engagements he does choose to take compared to others because the engagements and risks he takes in general are very calculated so his first deaths will naturally be lower as a result.
First deaths are a bad gauge of how many 'risks' someone takes but is an even worse gauge of if someone's stats are inflated. There's not any metric you can find on vlr that is good for that; it's all about watching the games and seeing who is going for those exit frags when they shouldn't, being more aggressive against ecos when they shouldn't and baiting when they shouldn't.
whatever you say bob, you can say Leo solved initiator or smth but early aggression more often than not make or break rounds that some other initiators take better advantage of (especially saadhaak). Ethan was the best initiator during Champs but his stats still aren't close to Leo's in terms of KD because EG and FNC play two different playstyles and it happens to be that Leo's overall stats benefit way more from it.
Leo hasn't solved info initiator but he is the best and most consistent in the world at the role; first deaths =/= early aggression. There is a push and pull throughout entire rounds of play; early aggression is only a tiny factor that is part of the equation of what determines a round. Saadhaak has never played a similar role to Leo's, there are a lot of players with inflated stats but Leo (and all of fnatic) aren't them. Ethan was underrated, but that doesn't mean Leo is overrated. I went through and found+did the math for Champions since that's what you're referencing a lot here.
Leo (info initiators in Champions):
12-8 (FK and FD) over 251 rounds.
20 first engagements.
Ethan (info initiators in Champions):
11-13 (FK and FD) over 205 rounds.
24 first engagements.
There isn't that huge of a difference as you seem to be trying to sell in my eyes. 20 vs 24 first engagements with only a 46 round differential. Even after all that, Leo still has more first bloods (since you mentioned people getting value for early engagements on this type of role). Regardless, using the FD statistic to measure for 'inflated stats' doesn't make much sense; rarely will a player in this role actually be in position to take good early engagements.
ok "bob" if thats even your REAL name, you can say that Leo is the Jesus Christ of info initiators but the whole point of using FDs as a statistic for initiators in particular isn't to show that "hey this guy is more aggressive which means he's better", there are common situations where initiators take the initiative to risk themselves in site takes/retakes to force trades for the rest of the team and take a lot of pressure off their duelist and whatnot that doesn't FNC fuck with alot, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing since FNC is mainly putting Leo on info only duty. Also idk where you got that FK and FD for Ethan because I'm getting 34:36 on VLR (its 26:17 if we arent counting Lower & Grand Final since FNC got knocked out before all that).
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply but also why you're getting upset enough to start making things personal over me stating Leo is considered the best info initiator right now, and exaggerating that point as if it's crazy and not widely agreed upon and for a while at this point. It's extremely rare for an initiator to be the entry on a site hit or a retake if everyone is alive. If you read up above, the Ethan stats I referenced are for when he played info initiator, the same role which Leo plays. The reason why I isolated it is because Ethan also played Yoru and KayO during the event, which is also why I included the rounds to show the discrepancy on a per-round basis.
uuuuh ok "bob" from "australia", I understand you think Leo is the Buddah of Valorant but you can't just isolate Ethan's agent pool for only info initiators and then compare the two when my entire point is that Ethan and many other initiators aren't strictly limited to being an info specialist by their team that carries a safer playstyle and its why his FK:FD and overall KD is lower despite showing a better initiator performance in Champs.
Initiators are not the entry in a site hit or retake when all five players are alive, that's the duelists job, but if you're on a flash initiator then you're gonna be the guy that's more often than not the follow up to whatever engage is happening that you set up for your duelist(s). It's why its rare to see flash initiators doing their own thing alone in pro play when a site needs to be taken, its expected of their role to be in the same risk as their duelists after the smokes go off because thats why the comp's usually drafted in the first place. Leo's norm isnt that and its why his stats are so cool because he plays in a way where the risks he takes are just less severe, the only exception for this though are his 4 maps of Skye with the other 10 being info agents, but even then he still plays Skye mainly for info with the bird while Chronicle goes on Breach for the site take which is honestly the meta anyways for Skye if a double initiator comp is being ran.
Not sure why you love saying my name so much. I'm not going to waste my time and reply anymore since it's clear you're an immature troll.
Obviously I won't include agents like Yoru in comparison to info initiators in FK/FD. Initially you were talking about how low first engagements means Leo doesn't take any risks and compared him to Ethan and now I've brought up the stats that they actually are similar in 'early aggression' as you would call it when playing the same role if we're to look at first engagements. Are we now going to say it's easy for Ethan to look like a good player when he's letting his team take 99% of the risks? It's a ridiculous statement either way.
Also, Skye is the best info initiator in the game by far and every team plays her accordingly.
I was just joking around to lighten up the mood lol sry if it made you upset, I personally don't enjoy having discussions like these if things get heated and sweaty over smth so little.
Like I said before though, you can't just compare both of their info initiators because Ethan also flexes flash initiators just as much. Ethan's FK/FDs is raised by his site taking subclass that aren't traditionally being ran by info initiators and its why both their Skye's have similar stats in that area. Trying to even the ground by taking out Ethan's engage agents isn't proving anything here. His Kayo is played half as much rounds as his Skye yet his FK:FD is almost even (10:9) because thats how flash initiators roll, it's simply a risker roll that comes at the cost of a way higher chance to lower those precious stats. Sova IMO is the safest initiator and one of the safest agents you can play overall, Leo excelled with that kind of playstyle and its why his stats look crazy at face value because there's less risks he needs to take that's all a core to FNC's playstyle.
That is not his role on the team?
As an initiator he has a strong kit which allows him to set up other players or gain information.
Let's use Leo most common role of scan initiator as an example.
Consider the attack side, what benefit would there be for a sova to take first contact? Compared to a Duelist which can create space and break angles.
He is a pack player for the team, most initiators util gain more value when there is someone to capitalise on the space created.
You would want the guy who can provide a huge amount of map information to be alive as long as possible.
leos so good they have to flame him for playing the game properly.
In what situation will leo be taking an initial duel? The situation where he isnt using his utility to set plays up, or perhaps the situtaion where instead of the sentinel player playing alone on site, he is the one hard anchoring and playing solo.
The fact that his first kills and deaths are low is a GOOD thing, he is a recon initiator player who is also very disciplined and understands the value of his utility.
STATS
mwzera https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/VK%20mwzera%234324/overview?playlist=competitive&season=all
cNed https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/ACE%20cNed%23carry/overview?season=all
TenZ https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/SEN%20TenZ%230505/overview?playlist=competitive&season=all
DEATHMATCH STATS
mwzera - 86% win rate (thats the insaniest thing ive seen in a while)
cNed - stats not availiable
TenZ - 73% win rate
RANKED STATS
mwzera - 66.3% winrate (MVP of 95% of the matches) proof here https://imgur.com/StiJmpg
cNed - 53.5% winrate (MVP of 13% of the matches)
TenZ - 60.4% winrate (MVP of 15% of the matches)
can you take your time to appreciate how insane mwzera is? without a doubt the most talented player to ever touch the game
I'll try to explain briefly why I think he is the best player in the world
Despite his insane aim and movement
The best way to know if a player is a good duelist is RAZE. There is a BIG difference between a good duelist and a jett abuser
If he is a good duelist, he needs to be good with raze.
heat? not good with raze
aspas? not good with raze
xand? not good with raze
tenz? not good with raze
cned? not good with raze
scream? not good with raze
d3ffo? not good with raze
derke? not good with raze
Thats why I think he is undoubtely the best player in the world. If RIOT by any means decides to nerf jett and shift the meta we prolly not gonna even hear names like cned and tenz again :>
He is not killing 40+ per map because when he joined VK he was forced to play a different role because heat is already a main jett... and lets be honest, every single duelist nowadays gets 20+ kills per map because team and setups are basically built around you (even steel managed to get 20 kills with it https://www.vlr.gg/29398/sentinels-vs-100-thieves-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-playoffs-gf/?game=46692&tab=overview)
STATS
mwzera https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/VK%20mwzera%234324/overview?playlist=competitive&season=all
cNed https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/ACE%20cNed%23carry/overview?season=all
TenZ https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/SEN%20TenZ%230505/overview?playlist=competitive&season=all
DEATHMATCH STATS
mwzera - 86% win rate (thats the insaniest thing ive seen in a while)
cNed - stats not availiable
TenZ - 73% win rate
RANKED STATS
mwzera - 66.3% winrate (MVP of 95% of the matches) proof here https://imgur.com/StiJmpg
cNed - 53.5% winrate (MVP of 13% of the matches)
TenZ - 60.4% winrate (MVP of 15% of the matches)
can you take your time to appreciate how insane mwzera is? without a doubt the most talented player to ever touch the game
I'll try to explain briefly why I think he is the best player in the world
Despite his insane aim and movement
The best way to know if a player is a good duelist is RAZE. There is a BIG difference between a good duelist and a jett abuser
If he is a good duelist, he needs to be good with raze.
heat? not good with raze
aspas? not good with raze
xand? not good with raze
tenz? not good with raze
cned? not good with raze
scream? not good with raze
d3ffo? not good with raze
derke? not good with raze
Thats why I think he is undoubtely the best player in the world. If RIOT by any means decides to nerf jett and shift the meta we prolly not gonna even hear names like cned and tenz again :>
He is not killing 40+ per map because when he joined VK he was forced to play a different role because heat is already a main jett... and lets be honest, every single duelist nowadays gets 20+ kills per map because team and setups are basically built around you (even steel managed to get 20 kills with it https://www.vlr.gg/29398/sentinels-vs-100-thieves-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-playoffs-gf/?game=46692&tab=overview)
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