Broski, calling Russians as "stinking" is kinda not cool. They haven't said anything bad about Finest above.
| Country: | Scotland |
| Registered: | March 14, 2021 |
| Last post: | April 17, 2024 at 8:23 PM |
| Posts: | 1028 |
Broski, calling Russians as "stinking" is kinda not cool. They haven't said anything bad about Finest above.
Nah, more like Gambit doing their gambit things as usual.
Too early to match them against SEN but their last six wins were very impressive. Glad for both davidp and pipson.
Rise had been playing some h0t Valorant recently ngl.... But yeah, scores like today's 13-2(Split) from Faze or not so rececent TSM's 1-13(Bind) defeat should not even f-ing EXIST imho, because you don't need any pre-planned work in form of strats/comps or good comms to lose with such of a DIFF maps that not even your team's worst on avg, like to begin with. You don't even need players in such teams, let alone PROs on a salary+cont contracts etc. Just FF ffs <-------Very painful experience for fans... SADGE
Thats's a nice list of langs to your CV. Similar to you but I actually grew up in three different countries. Three fluent langs plus one almost but also learnig mandarin now lol.
Belgrade's Partizan vs Red Star derby.
Manchester's manU vs manC
Milan's inter vs ac
Madrid's real vs atletico
London's gunners vs spurs
Glasgow's blues vs celts
https://twitter.com/i/status/1419739426905890820
Fly like a bird but not a feking bird.... Omen found himself looking for some CLOUDS on Bind.
So what? Is that suddenly a CRIME to go negative.... or was that too dificuilt to proceed to the next rounds from there, winning 2-0 in bo3 untill they faced stronger teams on the way ofc?
Xeppa added some good impact vs LG(never said anything) but based on your logic, then where was Xeppa vs RISE? That game was not less important than vs LG. And no, those are not speculations. Those are arguments that excluding Xeta from being the scapegoat in your eyes. As I said if you want to look for issues in C9B, then look but don't point at a player who doesn't deserve such treatment. That's my point to you.
Again you are calling me IGNORANT for my attempts of drggaing you down off those delucional CLOUDS of poor judgment you're currently on. And shoving me TSM Drone's situation as an example has nothing to do with Xeta's accustion from you side. Good job ;)
So, then if you also convinced that the problem could be because of anyone, you should stop spreading bs about Xeta. I will only be happy with it. Also, saying that stats are not the whole thing doesn't make you smarter. Learn to use them when they're needed.
Yeah, come on let's look at STATS againts teams C9B had a walk in the park winning each and everyone 2-0(bo3) in STAGE 3. It's just that the 2 most important games so far they LOST, bruvvv. What are you looking in those walk in the park games where Xeta bottom fragged(in 3 out of 9 and 2nd bottom)? What is it there that you found? Did you also find there bottom fraging Xeppa in their 3 games and 2nd bottom out of 9. Does that mean Xeppa has to go because not good enough recently? Floppy left, Xeta needs to go and also Xeppa needs to go now according to your "tough" LOGIC, right? And after all you call me an ignorant, yeah? Just accept and move on... No need to shove me numbers that work against your claims. It's all good but we need a point to critique from otherwise it won't work, you know.
And ofc, thank you again for voicing out how PATHETICALLY you judge players, disregarding their not too far of recent performances.
C9B no doubt has issues as it could be seen either through stats or VODs(watched both losses live), but it is not because of Xeta and not due to Xeppa and even not because of floppy. There could be many takes on their issues but plz leave Xeta out of it, if you plan to use same arguments to diss him like that. They are not even closely valid.
Alright then, C9B failed to qualify at 3rd stage into the Main event from 1st challengers, losing to RISE 2-0 in bo3:
It has happened clearly in STAGE 3 and to me it looks like you haven't done enough research here as Xeta is a solid mid tab with a higher combat and damage than your main duelist(just the point - nothing bad on Xeppaa). He also managed to clutch a 1v1 saving you the round. So, how can you claim that he is bad in STAGE 3 as he clearly isn't? BTW if you look closely, whole C9B team performed awfuly and all should be included in the convo, not just poor Xeta.
That brought them into 2nd challengers qualifications where they failed to qualify to the Main event losing to LG 2-0 in bo3 AGAIN:
Xeta performed below his expectations but that is only ONE GAME, bro. C9B look awful in both games so maybe it's just not Xeta's fault but the whole team's problem - something we don't know about yet? Or maybe it was Xeppa's fault that they failed to beat RISE as he underperformed on main duelst for the team back then in the same STAGE 3? Floppy has gone already too....
In STAGE 2, C9B played way better Valorant reaching upper and lower finals beating NV etc + putting fights against top teams where Xeta had been their second best player. Now, they can't go past RISE and LG and all that is because of Xeta's ONE BAD GAME, right? Is that really your argument or am I not seeing something that is not there in the first place? Xeta is getting blamed for not qualifying where their main duelist was underfraging vs RISE but of course we will still find the proof for Xeta's inability to carry on a intitator like SOVA in his recent game with C9B, disregarding his hard work through STAGE 2.
PATHETIC, that's what it is.
Sorry but it's just everytime I hear someone is bad, not many even try to support their claim on here, if any at all - just air talks, as usual.
No, It didn't take much time as I already knew they were playing Astra and how Astra is superiour to other smokers from Zombs tweets etc. It was just a matter of checking their match history, although it might confuse if unprepared. Just wanted to let it hang on here for those who find my point interesting. Though, there is so much more to discuss on the topic that I'm affraid that the format of this forum is no suitable, at least in one piece.
Yeah, you're right, if we allow ourselves to use a term "predictability", we can see why Sick is playing Skye ... her flashes are more versatile. Also, the heal and the dog scout ... she basically OP. Haven is SEN's best map with 79% winrate in 72 matches so imagine if TenZ would play Kay0 instead of Jett like DZ did when they faced TSM:
That would be very interesting to watch how all those abilities will be used from SEN's point of view. DZ's retake of A site on Haven from the above link looked scary flawless. SEN capable to come up with some the of sickest plays together with their fragging ability, so maybe we will see them play Kay0 one day.
Actually, I think in such a game like Valorant new metas help with predictability, in general. There aren't endless ways to create strats or local plays with certain agents. Eventually, teams learn how to counteract momentums or pace, so addition of new agents and switching agent metas plays favour to such eSport title. Lots have been complaining about the big variety of agents in this game but even from my tiny example we can see that switching to Astra, helped SEN finding a new momentum wave on Haven map which they kept riding untill after the LAN games - lots of Havens actually.
Didn't meant too long but skip the dahed part if bored...
It's not as straightforward as we would think. There is a pattern from SEN vs BBG game that can be traced back and possibly explained, but it should be taken with a grain of salt.
In short, SEN lost to BBG on Haven due to predictability (excellent HW by BBG) and insufficient diff in SEN's individual mechanics(below is the break down). I'm very sure I can explain losing Ascent in a similar way, but I haven't looked into it yet. Therefore, we can somewhat say that if there's an inadequate stagnation in pace or in implementation of old strats, then it will lead to upsets, even among teams like SEN, because unfourtunately individual mechanics diff is already very little and won't help winning maps any longer (mayby some rounds only), let alone series. Neither SEN losing to BBG nor T1 winnig over BBG make T1 a top 1 as BBG have never been a top 1 in the first place. BBG only pulled off a well calculated and well-planned upset, for which they deserve full credit. However, in order to become a top 1, BBG needed to win others regularly over a long period of time, to accrue ranked points (which, in my opinion, also serve as a consistency indicator) which they didn't.
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A short break-down of SEN's Haven map from BBG and on for interested:
So, if we limit SEN's map pool to Haven (vs BBG), we can see that SEN was most likely using their old strats with Phoenix/Sova/Jett/Cypher and Omen. Also since it was not yet a crucial stage of quals, and SEN viewed it as a simple game because possibly in their eyes BBG did not appear to be a threat, they somewhat underestimated BBG's preparation to counter their comp(+strat thinking) which resulted in losing Haven.
By skipping the smaller teams directly to SEN vs. RISE on Haven which they won with the same comp of Phoenix/Sova/Jett/Cypher and Omen. However the game was close until 9-9 to 13-9. Presumably, RISE were prepared but couldn't finnish off as a new and yet inexperienced team maybe?
Following game vs Noble on Haven was a comf win 13-6(same comp as above) ---> vs ANDBOX on Haven which they LOST 15-13(again same comp as above) ---> vs T1 on Haven they LOST 13-9 (8-4 to T1 at the first half) again with the same comp ---> vs IMT on Haven they fianlly WON 14-12 BUT with a new comp of Phoenix/Sova/Jett/Cypher and Astra, leading us to believe that new strats had been introduced(no brainer as new agent).
Now, they haven't lost a single Haven map since then(except in their last match vs XSET) even at Reikavek, playing the same new comp Phoenix/Sova/Jett/Cypher and Astra. Only when they were back in NA after LAN, they had reverted back to their old comp of Phoenix/Sova/Jett/Cypher and Omen when they played EG and SQ, possibly with new strats but an old comp? It looks like, we may say that BBG won because SEN's comp+strats at the time were quite READABLE on top of BBG's already excellent form and homework. Hence, if pro teams, even those of SEN's calibre, do not cycle or develop new strats in a timely manner, they will be left at the whim of individual mechanics of their players. And if the diff in indiv mech is not greater, then it won't bring the expected results for teams, let alone that Valorant as a game is essentially a succession of likely events that don't always turn out in our favour(whiffing etc).
Edited: Inserted in Bold Italic - last paragraph.
So, there is not a better controller in NA except Zombs and Vanity because of their international performance experience and understanding of the game, right?
If that is true, then will you change your above opinion when 3 teams from NA will go to their international LAN in Berlin? There will be at least one team with a controller who would qualify and have intl LAN experience, even if we exclude SEN/V1 for a moment?
Lastly, how do you measure "understanding of the game" of Zombs and Vanity? Do you have any methods, principles or theories that could be tested, preferably objective or somewhat aceptable ofc?
Calling me a CLOWN is not sport, kid. So, let's skip the useless phrasing and get right to the point.
Apart from "best," "perfectly," and "nobody," I haven't heard anything from you that could be considered reliable or if you will objective. Can you actually SUPPORT that Zombs is perfect and the best while Andersin is a nobody as you claim?
Fair, how about PIONEERS(18), are they not as good as V1(7) or DZ(22) are not as good as FAZE(3)? Why not considering such teams as a threat? BTW, I said that all teams in top 25 are as competative which means having strong desire to compete and succeed, leading to upsets or outgrowth over their opponents over either short or long-term periods and vice versa. In other words, I think that we are not at the point in time when we can easily consider top 8 teams above the rest of top 25 except SEN which stands on it's own, be it in the world or NA. We just don't see ENOUGH consistent performance from them yet. However, we are slowly getting there, and I'll be more than happy to finally see some stability among them. Same applies to EU where we could observe enough fluctuation to be conserned aboout teams who are way below top 8.
Since you mentioned TIERs, could you state the way or a method you've applied to decide which team belongs to which tier and why?
Believe it or not, I had hoped to find some conversation on Andersin without comparing him to Zombs, simply picturing a scenario in which there were no Zombs cause he left or whatever(Is it possible that Andersin could make SEN better?) Some people mentioned alternatives to Andersin without bringing Zombs into the conversation, which was more than alright. But some, like you, have decided to push their own opinion without providing evidence to support their claims, despite the fact that Zomb's numbers aren't on level with other smokers.
In all honestly, it is hard to add anything because I believe you, like others on this site, have some insecurities about your favourite players or a team. But yeah, you have somewhat expressed your own opinion and that's totally fine I guess. It's just I wanted to see some support to your claims.
Alright, if you drag Zombs into the convo from the get go.... Do you think that there are no players currently in NA that can replace Zombs in SEN, given they have enough skill to help SEN maintaining their success or even make them perform better, just because they haven't proven their quality at a global LAN(except V1 players ofc)?
Listen, you are wrong. This thread was made to find an opinion on whether Andersin would make SEN a better team. Come on, you can read, right? Zombs here has no place to be discussed and if some people dragged him into conversation, that's doesn't mean that the whole thread becomes about Zombs or his underperformance. So, again, from the original poster, this thread is about Andersin and has nothing to do with Zombs apart from the fact that Zombs plays in same team/smokes.
Now regarding ACS, it's not always a reliable indicator on its own when you look at player's performance because diff agents have different impact on the game, nor HS% would be equally reliable on its own. However, there are ADR, CL% or KD etc that I normally look at with consideration of ACS/HS% and the rest, if I'm trying to estimate certain player's impact. It's not an easy thing to conclude some times but I am not the type of person who'd go and tell the world about his findings based only on ACS. That's just not reliable enough in my book but on ocassions there are times when you can base some opinion by looking at ACS only. I also closely watch matches live and VODs which helps me to understand certain players from different perspective. So, it's all cool bro. You could have just normally asked me without stupid accusations and I would gladly replied to you as I did with other responses on here. But whatever ... thnx for your input.
Edited: Some typos only.
What was the condition for putting teams into tier 1 category?
If you decide that teams who fall into tier 1 had to play in say all biggest events from RIOT(Masters and First Strike) except Reykjavík(for now). Then you'd have SEN/V1 cause of Reykjavík and Faze, NV, 100t and IMT are all belong in tier 1 because all except V1(new but ended up in Reykjavík) played in First Strike and Masters. Especially, this year's Masters was the biggest tourny in NA(not international). Unfortunately, C9B has never been a tier 1 team in Valorant yet as they have never reached a main event through the qualifications, not even once. Whereas LG, XSET, GEN.G, TSM, T1 and RNG have played at least in one of the two biggest main events and belong in tier 1.5. From here on you can build tier 2 and 3 based on playoffs and maybe some monthly tournaments(consider some teams were not allowed to play monthlies).
I mentioned about condition as there has to be some order/rule or we're going to change tiers every month depends on recent teams' performance.
Did you just agree with the statement that Xepa has been underperfoming?
Could you plaese tell me exactly in which games he's been underperforming or where should I looked for his underperformance? I actually went and looked at his history and except today's game I don't see anything....
He's not been underperformining like CONSISTENLY underperforming. He only had a ONE BAD game where his team looked awful af, and you already think he should be dropped? How about stage 2 quals, did you even bother looking at his performance there?
Edited: Stage 3 ---> 2
So, does that mean he played vs tier 1 teams? It's just @plebwong thinks he haven't played vs tier 1 teams yet.
"Love seeing people using ACS to try to say Zombs is bad, it always shows me who actually knows anything about the game."
Would you mind to tell me, who is saying that Zombs is bad, and what's your beef with ACS? I mean who exactly is using ACS here?
Only as a rofl though:
Badly Beaten Gamecocks or Baited by Governors.
Failed to defuse on time due to reasons stated in the link. Doesn't stop some of our vlr members to judge the poor guy straight away whithout knowing wtf has happend.
Cool and thanks for your input.
You should already know that Andersin plays Omen and rest of smoking brigade plus he is an excellent duelist. And you're right about Shahzam as I too believe that a good IGL which Shahz is could always make things work faster(TenZ ex...imho). Also, zombs can flex not only on many smokers but also on duelists as he has shown it in past.
I agree on Andersin having more impact than zombs with his frags ... that was my initial interest in asking the comminity. But the range of answers were still somewhat alright, given trolling and plain bias from some members.
Don't forget that Subroza is actually an Omen main and plays smokes on some maps when Hazed plays kj/cypher.
It's alright bro... don't feel intimidated by the ACS - it doesn't bite;)
Everyone has their own opinion on thing, let alone experince that you yourself might lack. Not everything in life is a BAIT but if you look for a BAIT, you will always find one even if there was no any BAIT there. gDay
Cool and thnx for your input.... I know what you mean. Actually someone already mentioned about him fitting into Faze system and it seems decent to me as he plays pretty aggressive.
Anyways, it seems that this topic can go way deeper than what I initially thought of due to some fans' loyalty and just bias. But still it was worth the time. thnx
Obv chemistry is a big thing. But we're talking about a pro player who is familiar with typical org governance codes. They all begin from it to get down to the actual team level comms etc. He has proven that in this regard he is not problematic so I don't see him struggling in being part of any NA team atm. Another thing if we were talking about foreign player which might not always work out but he is American.
And I replied in that thread that we can't mix Indian no tears with NA tiers. When you look at the data, you must follow certain condition in a rules format. You can't just take stats and say that that player better than the other one as it simply won't be reliable. The tier is an actual condition that should not be violated in the analysis. You only can compare teams by their region or by tournaments - that's it. So even a comparison of a cNed to TenZ is unreliable, no matter how much we want it to be. If we had to compare them, we'd need to wait till Berlin if they both go through ofc.
Though you can probably estimate cNed's skill to TenZ's stats by relaxing the condition, but we'd need to assume that EU is somewhere similar level(you won't be wrong btw). Unfourtunately, you'd never be able to do a valid pro report on it. In three years time, we'd have more data and will be able to get a better estimation between the regions but not untill then. Though you can easily compare Derke to TenZ as both played at Reijkivik - condition not violated. Sorry for strictness but real world statistics require a lot of rigour. Therefore, SkRossi is completely out of question atm as he is a foregner and might have potential probs integrating into NA teams which will lead to a decreased performance. And that SkRossi plays in a non tier region that for obv reasons is full of amateurs and is not even close to any pro Val region, let alone the strongest - NA region. With Andersin, it's a differnt story as he is already a pro and performed vs top teams successfully. Hence, you can compare him to other NA pros or semis to arrive at a very close estimation.
I see your point. You're conserned with some assurance in your investment as an org which is part of a typical risk assesment - they all cost you some $$$ obv and you'd expect some return on it(or you lose). But how tight is your risk aversion model is dictated by an org itself and if an org has enough spending power, they'd typically jump at any hot opportunity(i.e eSports or football etc). Leading us to the point where it doesn't matter how long a player had been playing before as long as inside channels(scouts) reporting on that player's skill/worth. Obv if a player had shown his worth by succeeding against strong opponents in the past, he'd have a better chance of being picked up by a big org.
Now Andersin is actually belong to the later category of an experienced player who'd showned his skill vs strong opponents. Metas here have no substantial ground in deciding whether a player has a RAW skill in this game or not. Andersin can play as good on duelists as he can play on controllers which shows his deep agent pool grasp. It is already kind of impressive eventhough he rarely played top teams since we are talking about officials and not matchmaking. Like for example, what assurance we would get bringing a cold ex-cs pro even the decorated one who had not play Val? We have seen T1's struggle and TSM's for over a year now. Andersin was owning it today vs TSM and was doing beside one or two duelists, playing a contoller. Anyway, possibly this is a matter of different approaches and we could agree to disagree.
Yes, but then after only three days they won XSET in the finals 3-1. Appeared to be that XSET were quite strong team as they too reached finals, so I don't see any contradiction here.
Bro, Andersin has already performed vs top tier teams.
Bro, how many times a player has to perform well against teams with 1800+ to consider his worth? Like what, do you really think a player has to play all his life to finally being considered worth playing for a top tier? Like do you need him to be already a cream of the crop top tier who exclusively played many years vs top tiers so that he'll be considered as a top tier team potential?
Fair enough, I see. I just took Ranking on here as a base. If you ask me, this ranking represnts consistency in some way. Not the final goal(i.e. playoffs etc) type of consistency but more per cycle of matches as it only needed to lose one match to be droped from quals etc. But fine, we might disagree on that yet the ranking in on this site is for a reason(obv).
Now, Andersin does not need to be playing in playoffs to prove his worth. It is enough to face enough strong teams on diff occasions to show his skill(strictly IMHO). Either Koalas or DZ might not have had enough balanced squad to counteract other teams, hence not reaching playoffs or such would have underrated him or any other player in his situatation untill next another big opportunity where he could shine in one of the big matches - not saying ofc that he wants to leave the team etc. But again, I only wanted to know if Andersin can make SEN an even better team, given who and where he is at the moment in terms of his skill and team's tier.
Here is your one trick guy:
https://www.vlr.gg/player/1089/andersin/?timespan=all
Like dauum, he can actually play duelists decently. Bruv, just get to know something about shit you talk before talking about it - ngl one dimentional Head award category level.
Bruhhh.... For a second imagine that this thread is just a normal forum conversation. There are no bait intentions in here, at least from me. I mean are you so traumatized from BAITS to the point that everything looks like a bait to you or what?
That make sense given Faze parted with their main smoker Marved and how agressive Andersin can play.
I'll make it easier for you, if you want to compare zombs and andersin.
Andersin's page:
https://www.vlr.gg/player/1089/andersin/?timespan=all
Zombs page:
https://www.vlr.gg/player/47/zombs/?timespan=all
At this point, there is no need to search for separate matches. We can just look at their main profile page.
Have you watched any other DZ or Koalas games before because judging him based on the game vs TSM is not quite fair. Yet he came out as MVP of bo3.
FYI, I consider TOP 25 NA as competitive as any other team out or in that top. I mean DZ(22) beat FAZE(3) or XSET(5) is not enough of a proof for that? Or how about RISE(13) or Pioneers(18) who beat C9(6) or V1(8) - the Rejikavik qualifier, and will be playing in playoffs is once in a blue moon for you? Well, I'll tell you to stop being delucional and consider that every team in that top will go above and beyond to become the best. In brief, it's their actual business plan, if you will. The question is more whether they have the capacity to reach that goal. And the answer would be, yes they have the capacity and have already demonstrated to us by reaching the playoffs. They are not the best yet but it's a progress nevertheless, don't you agree?
BTW why are you so concerned with the tiers where the topic is about particular player who is a highly skilled one? Like as if you didn't know that for example, NAVI replaced Flamie with B1t - the guy who you'd never heard about anything before, let alone tier. Yet, B1t does top tier work and does it exceptionally well, if you still watch cs ofc. And I can give you more examples like that as it represents the scouting job at its core. If an unknown player has skills to be in the top tier team, it has nothing to do with the team level he's being scouted from.
BcJ and AYRIN to be correct....
I absolutely agree on bad days thing. Zombs has been very solid for SEN and one game that I linked is not going to make him a bad player suddenly. But from what I've seen, their utility usage is more than good for a team smoker. It's just that I thought Andersin is a slightly better player when it comes to defending the site(i.e A on Haven etc). He just doesn't fall that easy and somehow gets those headshots left and right, you know? Again it's imho ofc but I believe we can find some data on that.
Thanks for reminding LAN - best argument yet.
I mean Faze(top3) or XSET(top5) - the same XSET who managed to win SEN... or Soniqs - the team who managed to take a map out of SEN. I mean, don't tell me you don't know who Andersin is.
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