oh yeah the map veto was FUCKED

Legija was never that good, he fits into that mediocre catergory

oh yeah its 100% isnt the primary reason

but players very easily breakdown, coaches are extra harsh on players as well due to it.

In league there are legit players puking on stage due to the pressure from fans

no its not, CB isnt a terrible player, he overpeaks but mechanically he is fine, his utility is fine (not on yoru but China doesnt have a single good yoru player utility wise), his calls in game from vods ive watched are fine.

Slowly is lile 1.2x the player Cb is.

just focus on the macro and the coach

jieni is on EDG still, hfmi was dropped a long time ago

idk about PR, but he looks good.

and yeah you are right...
NOVA have like 2 good players being GuanG and Ezeir LOL

Hfmi did horribly in stage 2 china, as soon as EDG dropped him, EDG started winning.

again not a player problem, hfmi was doing fine off of EDG, just doesnt fit in the ecosystem

better option than CB but he isnt fixing the team

Very american take

in esport cultures like korea or china, losing is such immense pressure. people make whole billboards, and advertisements about you, people start stalking you and hate on you irl, there are hundreds of videos hating you, people stand outside your HQ to yell and hold up signs to hate on you. Your chat is filled with millions who hate on you, nearly every thread about you on social media is about you and how shit you are.

in western media, someone makes a slander video about you and move on with their day

what you said is completely wrong, but I still agree with the overall point

• Chichoo didnt IGL in bangkok, he ONLY igl'd in stage 2 (because nobody was playing yoru)
• S1Mon wasnt helping make calls, he only made calls for his utility, the overall macro calls has ALWAYS been nobody

BUT YES, EDG have still yet to find a good 5th for them

CB, HFMI, Jieni are all decent players but dont fit into EDG's ecosystem

ITS 1 SOLUTION. IMPORT COACHES

THEY HAVE 1 GOOD-DECENT COACH IN THAT REGION, 1
AND IT JUST SO HAPPENS THE TEAM HE COACHES ARE SERIAL CHOKERS
THE REST OF THEM ARE JUST BAD-MEDIOCRE

ITS NOT A PLAYER PROBLEM
ITS NOT A ORG PROBLEM
ITS NOT A META PROBLEM (well this one does player a factor into it)
ITS A COACH AND MACRO PROBLEM

Slowly's yoru isnt that insane, he would improve them minimally
Slowly isnt a good igl

EDG just need a good coach, thats what 99% of china need

EDG need a better coach
EDG need a better analyst
EDG need to either get a foreign IGL who can speak chinese, or Make nobody reach his 2024 potential again

EDG may benefit from CB replacement
EDG may benefit from Smoggy replacement

EDG could look into Chichoo replacement

their players arent the fundamental problem but they have been underpreforming

yeah I agree'd with the rest, I was just trying to say EDG wouldve qualified even if it wasnt "a shooters meta"

again he is signed to zeta, zeta would have to release him or redo the contract for him to do that

kangkang wont leave china, he loves his country

#38

they signed Autumn because

• he is a free agent
• Won Bangkok (history of success)
• International coach (much better than chinas coaches)

was there better options? defnintely but the reasoning isnt hard to see

i also agree to remove autumn and get someone better

Mini isnt a coach not an AC.

Mini is only a consultant who helps identify problems and what to fix, he is also signed to zeta

Majority fo china has 0 clue what they are talking about then

I could prove these points if you really wanted to

EDG didnt sneak into another international, the rest of china has worse teamplay and macro ideas than EDG besides XLG
BLG have better fundamentals but dont know what the meta is, or where to contest, or when or where to aggress

They are just good enough to gatekeep other Chinese teams from international events, but lack the consistency, progress, or strategic innovation that would elevate the region as a whole.

So do the rest of china, EDG's strategic innovation is only behind XLG in china, im sorry to say but china this and last year just have no clue what the meta is or what to do. EDG going to internationals is the best thing for china because they are top 2 in the region strats wise and always have been.
"oh but BLG" BLG have good fundamentals, they have 0 clue what they are doing in this meta, running breach thinking its 2022. BLG may play fundamentally decent (still worse than a team from any other region - half the time [most whzy] overpeeks life freaks, heavy fight over nonesense areas like abyss mid) but they werent gonna do anything and are just a worse team than EDG.

EDG only has 2 events where both the team and the field were top-tier: Champs 2024 and Masters Bangkok.

if you are counting only top 3 as toptier, this is a bad point. EDG have made 10 Events, Rest of CN have made 19 Events, with this you would expect CN to have double the "top tier" performance BUT the only "top tier" event was wolves LINSANITY/ZETA run. EDG are consistently out preforming the rest of CN internationally. so this argument of "only 2 events" is dumb

The win was a mix of a perfect storm (meta, easy path) combined with individual players (Chichoo/KK) peaking at the exact right time.

"Easy path" and group D was considered the second hardest group behind group B. "Easy Path" and EDG's kryptonite PRX is in their bracket. "Easy Path" and a top preformer expectant (g2) is in the group

Chichoo and KK did not peak in champs. S1Mon is the only player who peaked at champs

• Nobody (Champs 2023) [as an IGL he did peak in champs]
• Zmjjkk (Tokyo)
• Chichoo (Bangkok)
• Smoggy (Peaked in groupstage, fell off hard in playoffs - so technically yes he peaked but he wasnt why they won the event)

were ahead of every other team because of their style working in their favor.

While yes this is true, you dont just win because your style fits the meta, otherwise Liquid would have won Santiago already. you still need to have toptier macro. Simply put, EDG had the best Macro and Meta read in the event. People keep treating it as if EDG went nuclear and were still the same selves. THIS IS TERRIBLE TAKE. EDG had some insane anti (Why they completely fucked LEV and TH btw) consistently reading teams, they ran incredible fakes where they could pull 3-4 players with a single guy, nobody was on something because his reads were good 80% of the time. S1Mon was throwing perfect support utility.

like I genuinely dont understand how someone can watch that event and say "er yeah EDG had good form but their macro was so so"

Bangkok chichoo went insane

yeah I agree, EDG didnt make top 3, chichoo did

While Spring fragged out, they also showed strong fundamental util usage, team play, and IGLing.

WRONG, Wolves went on a linsanity run where every player played way better than they did in china. Every player besides lysoar peaked at that event, which is reflected in the fact they were never able to make even domestic playoffs again

XLG: Earned their No. 1 seed for Toronto through util usage and initiator play (Rarga/Happywei) being on the exact same page. This type of coordination allows players to "go wild" within a system, rather than relying on pure aim.

Yes but they also have been to 3 events and won 2 maps IN TOTAL. they arent doing anything for china

Gatekeeping Experience: By consistently being "just good enough" to qualify, they block other teams (like Wolves or XLG) from getting the international experience needed to improve.

Wolves cant even make playoffs bro, they arent gonna qualify anyways, they are such frauds bro
FPX and BLG consistently make events over china's history and done nothing
XLG consistently make events over this last period and done nothing

but because them being aim-differs and not actually having to learn to innovate or think about the game at a higher level leads to complacency in the region, and keeps the rest of them down. A rising tide lifts all boats, but when the tide is being held down by EDG, the boats will inevitably stay at the same level

This is the whole problem in china, No one has good strats besides XLG (who have midtier strats and bad fundamentals past 30 seconds in the round), no one is helping anyone improve. not an edg problem, its an everyone problem. No one from china is going to consistently preform, this is a deluisonal take. EDG and XLG are by far the best candidates for that and both of them are top of china and both of them suck ass internationally.

EDG needs to evolve past relying on Chichoo and KK's aim.

yes

EDG need to drop Autumn

yes, but getting an APAC coach is the right idea

I lied I do care enough

Theres many points I disagree with but I dont think I care enough to argue about them 1-1

I like EDG en all

but bro does everything on his team to still lose 11-26

intiator
controller
sentinel
duelist

hardest to frag to easiest

left us too soon

fundamentally not how playing duelist and calling works.
legit the only way it works is if you only run fast rounds, make pre barrier strats and then insta die and start igling after that

u cant igl on duelist effectively

im still worrying about them qualifying xd
idk why everyone thinks we have it in the bag alr with that being said

LFG Liquid

PRX at 4 is criminal

a team might feel robbed because the drawing didnt follow the rules that was intially stated and call the drawing a rig

https://www.vlr.gg/630739/redraw-problem/#1

WELP whatever LFG LIQUID we win either way

yeah it couldve been worse

LFG Liquid!! LETS GO TO PLAYOFFS

NRG TL is so much cooler tho

noooooooo :(

at least it isnt prx ig

nope

all 4 matches are different

4/9 or 44% of no domestic game
4/9 or 44% of a domestic game
1/9 or 11% of two domestic games

yikes you right

need additional pylons

sighhhh

its 1/9 i did the math

(4 2)/2! = 6/2= 3

multiply that for the 2 groups

3x2=9

its 1/9 odds

did u actually? im way too lazy to check

within this hour supposodly

yep

FPX vs XSET turret moment
ACEND vs Vivo key stars Cypher Cam moment

hope it doesnt affect it too badly

only reason would be is to keep it fair as it wasnt the format the teams and viewers were told. i think its not necessary but oh well

ur right but the odds are not that high for that

I wouldve preferred that too icl but oh well :/