Like genuinely, tier 1 has been recycling the same washed players for 3 years. No wonder EMEA has been the worst region for the last couple years, all their good players and teams were locked in tier 2
EMEA tier 1 sucks
posted in
Valorant Discussion
people should've realized this way earlier when BBL lifted that kickoff trophy at the beginning of the season
SadQwesz [#2]it suddenly make so much sense
Who would've thought that re-signing players who were good in 2022 instead of young talent wasn't a good plan?
catmeister [#3]people should've realized this way earlier when BBL lifted that kickoff trophy at the beginning of the season
why go that far? KC 2024 won in 2024 with 4 players fresh off of T2 and a kid playing his 2nd year
EU has strong Tier 2 culture in every single sport/esport
The thing that almost doesnt exist in other regions, like Americas, you don't even know the word relegation as your teams in sports cant relegate/promote
We love regional leagues and you can look at the best example which is League of Legends, in NA it literally doesnt exist meanwhile in EU we have promotions, relegations and regional leagues in almost every country
to be fair americas literally been doing the same thing, it was a big reason they were the worst region in 2025
only nrg picked people new to vct and look how it paid off. now in 2026 the best teams are the ones all in on t2 talent
All four of the tier 2 teams have "recycled tier 1 players".
Enterprise: paTiTek, MAGNUM
Joblife: runneR, kamyk, doma, UNFAKE
Fire Flux: batujnax, reazy
Eintracht Frankfurt: MONSTEERR
edit: yes, I realize some of these are stretches, but I was just trying to prove a point lol just trying to be devil's advocate
tong5 [#6]EU has strong Tier 2 culture in every single sport/esport
The thing that almost doesnt exist in other regions, like Americas, you don't even know the word relegation as your teams in sports cant relegate/promote
We love regional leagues and you can look at the best example which is League of Legends, in NA it literally doesnt exist meanwhile in EU we have promotions, relegations and regional leagues in almost every country
Why hasn't EMEA won a trophy in years with your so called "strong tier 2 culture"? Surely EMEA should be swimming in talent lol
tong5 [#6]EU has strong Tier 2 culture in every single sport/esport
The thing that almost doesnt exist in other regions, like Americas, you don't even know the word relegation as your teams in sports cant relegate/promote
We love regional leagues and you can look at the best example which is League of Legends, in NA it literally doesnt exist meanwhile in EU we have promotions, relegations and regional leagues in almost every country
Then if EMEA doesnt win anything next year, the region is truly ass cheeks
Rakooon [#9]Why hasn't EMEA won a trophy in years with your so called "strong tier 2 culture"? Surely EMEA should be swimming in talent lol
Nepotism and no will to take risks with tier 2 players
Rakooon [#9]Why hasn't EMEA won a trophy in years with your so called "strong tier 2 culture"? Surely EMEA should be swimming in talent lol
Isnt this year the first one where we have play-ins with tier 2 teams?
lol
severfield [#8]All four of the tier 2 teams have "recycled tier 1 players".
Enterprise: paTiTek, MAGNUM
Joblife: runneR, kamyk, doma, UNFAKE
Fire Flux: batujnax, reazy
Eintracht Frankfurt: MONSTEERR
edit: yes, I realize some of these are stretches, but I was just trying to prove a point lol just trying to be devil's advocate
"recycled t1 players" and you include monsteerr who played one split in vct and batu who has completely changed his identity as a player
severfield [#8]All four of the tier 2 teams have "recycled tier 1 players".
Enterprise: paTiTek, MAGNUM
Joblife: runneR, kamyk, doma, UNFAKE
Fire Flux: batujnax, reazy
Eintracht Frankfurt: MONSTEERR
edit: yes, I realize some of these are stretches, but I was just trying to prove a point lol just trying to be devil's advocate
Most of those players were tier 1 pre-franchising when things were fully open, or they only got 1 chance in franchising on a shit team, then everyone gave up on them.
tubelight [#11]Nepotism and no will to take risks with tier 2 players
So we agree EMEA tier 1 teams suck
tong5 [#12]Isnt this year the first one where we have play-ins with tier 2 teams?
lol
You missed the point, if tier 2 was so strong, there should be no reason for the tier 1 teams to absorb the talent. But that's not the case.
Rakooon [#16]You missed the point, if tier 2 was so strong, there should be no reason for the tier 1 teams to absorb the talent. But that's not the case.
Different mentality and experiences, your region is used to scouting in sports like NBA/NFL etc where its every kid dream to become successful in sports, its big part of your culture, you have college leagues and shit, our regions just work different, you could see at PCIFIC, when they qualified to EMEA their roster got bought by BBL instantly, we just like when something is working already, not building it from scratch i guess
cirruss [#13]"recycled t1 players" and you include monsteerr who played one split in vct and batu who has completely changed his identity as a player
yeah, some of them were a bit of stretch to call them t1 players, but if anything that makes the point even more pertinent that "washed t1 players" can't be good. sometimes they're just not on a team that fits them or their playstyle
J7N [#14]Most of those players were tier 1 pre-franchising when things were fully open, or they only got 1 chance in franchising on a shit team, then everyone gave up on them.
guys like MAGNUM and doma were tier 1 in the "plumber era", but that was still the best players of that time. just proves the point that "washed t1 players" might have not been on a good team for them to shine. there are definitely players on t1 teams in all regions that shouldn't be, not denying that fact at all lol
tong5 [#17]Different mentality and experiences, your region is used to scouting in sports like NBA/NFL etc where its every kid dream to become successful in sports, its big part of your culture, you have college leagues and shit, our regions just work different, you could see at PCIFIC, when they qualified to EMEA their roster got bought by BBL instantly, we just like when something is working already, not building it from scratch i guess
And in Europe scouting is not that big mainly because of relegations and promotions, you can start in 3rd league and grind your way up to the first one, if someone is exceptionally good he will get picked up by other big teams
In USA you can't do it, you can't get from NBA 2nd league to 1st League because there is no such thing, you must get scouted
severfield [#18]yeah, some of them were a bit of stretch to call them t1 players, but if anything that makes the point even more pertinent that "washed t1 players" can't be good. sometimes they're just not on a team that fits them or their playstyle
in nearly every case, picking up actual washed t1 vets has not worked for any team. also the use of pertinent hurts ur point here more than anything. the last team to win a major trophy who opted for a core of tier 1 veterans was t1 at bangkok
LocoMonteiro [#5]why go that far? KC 2024 won in 2024 with 4 players fresh off of T2 and a kid playing his 2nd year
TH also was the best EMEA team in 2024 with 3 tier 2 talents + a 4th in patitek when he stood in
Yea, ever after all the good tier 1 teams started swapping players around on teams, its been going down-hill FAST.
cirruss [#21]in nearly every case, picking up actual washed t1 vets has not worked for any team. also the use of pertinent hurts ur point here more than anything. the last team to win a major trophy who opted for a core of tier 1 veterans was t1 at bangkok
I won't disagree that trying to fix a team by just signing a former t1 pro based off their name is a terrible idea. I guess I'm not trying to say that picking up former t1 players is the best thing or always works, tbh I don't like making changes mid-season unless absolutely necessary. My point was more that "washed t1 players" might not actually be washed just because they had a bad run, just need a roster that fits them more. I would much rather have a team that has been playing together for a long time and has good team chem over a superteam of stars whose playstyles don't mesh well together.
I think JonahP is a great example of this. Some people have called him washed, but he spent so much time with the Guard/G2 core for so long and they play/think a very specific, methodical way. I think he struggled this stage because he had some time off and had to learn an entirely new team dynamic after several years of the same thing. I'm not ready to call him washed yet until he plays another split with SEN.
It just sucks because there are so few games per year, so management for orgs need to make tough decisions whether to ride it out or make changes. I do think some teams (looking at NAVI in particular) make too many changes too hastily. Some teams are picking up good players and making them look worse by playing off their role. Look at M8, who moved their sentinel main to duelist and picked up an initiator player to be their Viper/sentinel player.
severfield [#24]I won't disagree that trying to fix a team by just signing a former t1 pro based off their name is a terrible idea. I guess I'm not trying to say that picking up former t1 players is the best thing or always works, tbh I don't like making changes mid-season unless absolutely necessary. My point was more that "washed t1 players" might not actually be washed just because they had a bad run, just need a roster that fits them more. I would much rather have a team that has been playing together for a long time and has good team chem over a superteam of stars whose playstyles don't mesh well together.
I think JonahP is a great example of this. Some people have called him washed, but he spent so much time with the Guard/G2 core for so long and they play/think a very specific, methodical way. I think he struggled this stage because he had some time off and had to learn an entirely new team dynamic after several years of the same thing. I'm not ready to call him washed yet until he plays another split with SEN.
It just sucks because there are so few games per year, so management for orgs need to make tough decisions whether to ride it out or make changes. I do think some teams (looking at NAVI in particular) make too many changes too hastily. Some teams are picking up good players and making them look worse by playing off their role. Look at M8, who moved their sentinel main to duelist and picked up an initiator player to be their Viper/sentinel player.
i see what you're trying to say, but i feel like that opting for a veteran over a tier 2 player can be a bigger risk personally. outside of things inside the game, tier 2 players almost always are more hungry for a spot and more ready to improve compared to veterans. with tier 2 players as well, they obviously have less experience in high-level teams, and as a result this more often than not allows them to become more adaptable and easier to shape into a teams gameplan. their vision for the game isn't nearly as well developed.
i can think of a few examples where veterans were signed to a new team and given another chance, and have not succeeded unless the system is changed to specifically accommodate them (demon1 on envy right now, yay on EG last year) just to name a couple. instances like this just inhibit a team's growth, which in a game like valorant where the meta can flip on a dime is paramount to foster a strong environment for.
i do agree with you that the ecosystem of valorant esports makes decisions like these really difficult to traverse though. the esports changes to val cannot come soon enough, it's crazy that the worst of the worst teams can play a max of 40 some maps over an entire calendar year. PRX who has made two international grand finals and won a regional stage, while playing kickoff through nearly the maximum amount of matches has played 94 maps this year since 2026 started. Contrasting that, vitality in CS has played 105 maps, and the CS season is barely halfway over while the final event for Valorant starts next month. teams don't get enough chances to bounce back and really see what impact the changes they make actually have
tong5 [#20]And in Europe scouting is not that big mainly because of relegations and promotions, you can start in 3rd league and grind your way up to the first one, if someone is exceptionally good he will get picked up by other big teams
In USA you can't do it, you can't get from NBA 2nd league to 1st League because there is no such thing, you must get scouted
What the hell is this region mentality cope, do you think Americas is only the USA?
Rakooon [#26]What the hell is this region mentality cope, do you think Americas is only the USA?
Ah I forgot all these orgs like G2, Cloud9, NRG, 100T, Sentinels, EG, Envy are from Brazil and do 0 scouting
tong5 [#27]Ah I forgot all these orgs like G2, Cloud9, NRG, 100T, Sentinels, EG, Envy are from Brazil and do 0 scouting
Just sounds to me like you're making up some weird reasons in your head to excuse EMEA's orgs shitty management. Do you realize all this promotion/relegation talk makes zero sense in a franchise esport like Valorant?
Rakooon [#28]Just sounds to me like you're making up some weird reasons in your head to excuse EMEA's orgs shitty management. Do you realize all this promotion/relegation talk makes zero sense in a franchise esport like Valorant?
The problem is, it makes full sense
https://www.vlr.gg/736643/t2-eu-vs-t2-amer/
But keep living in your world, stop bothering me
cirruss [#25]i see what you're trying to say, but i feel like that opting for a veteran over a tier 2 player can be a bigger risk personally. outside of things inside the game, tier 2 players almost always are more hungry for a spot and more ready to improve compared to veterans. with tier 2 players as well, they obviously have less experience in high-level teams, and as a result this more often than not allows them to become more adaptable and easier to shape into a teams gameplan. their vision for the game isn't nearly as well developed.
i can think of a few examples where veterans were signed to a new team and given another chance, and have not succeeded unless the system is changed to specifically accommodate them (demon1 on envy right now, yay on EG last year) just to name a couple. instances like this just inhibit a team's growth, which in a game like valorant where the meta can flip on a dime is paramount to foster a strong environment for.
i do agree with you that the ecosystem of valorant esports makes decisions like these really difficult to traverse though. the esports changes to val cannot come soon enough, it's crazy that the worst of the worst teams can play a max of 40 some maps over an entire calendar year. PRX who has made two international grand finals and won a regional stage, while playing kickoff through nearly the maximum amount of matches has played 94 maps this year since 2026 started. Contrasting that, vitality in CS has played 105 maps, and the CS season is barely halfway over while the final event for Valorant starts next month. teams don't get enough chances to bounce back and really see what impact the changes they make actually have
Tier 2 demons definitely are typically more hungry/driven, I won't disagree with you there. They're probably cheaper than a former t1 pro 9/10 times too. If you have a few solid seasoned veterans and a good coach (unfortunately seems to be a unicorn in 2026) a tier 2 demon probably makes more sense. They HAVE to be coachable though, which can potentially be tough with a young player.
While Demon1 and yay both flopped after leaving the team they won internationals on, I think they may be two of the worst examples because they were both the star duelist/chamber player where their teams basically focused on nothing but setting them up for success. They both switched roles to more supportive roles, like having Demon1 on Astra/Brim in NRG. Demon1 has also been looking more confident and in form now that he is playing more comfortable roles for him. He'll never hit the form he did in 2023 EG, but I think he's still a solid player, just not very flexible. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see yay in t1 again. C9 fucked his confidence and career cutting him when/how they did. Then he got fucked over by BLEED. He's also too inflexible imo to be a top player again.
I really hope this new format next year will help with having a higher number of games per year for teams. Obviously don't want players to burn out, but it's just crazy to me how few times you get to see some teams play. So hard to find a good identity, especially with the meta changes with agent balancing as often as it happens.
tong5 [#29]The problem is, it makes full sense
https://www.vlr.gg/736643/t2-eu-vs-t2-amer/But keep living in your world, stop bothering me
Yeah, I'm not reading all that. Also, stop upvoting all your own posts, it's very obvious and pathetic.
Rakooon [#31]Yeah, I'm not reading all that. Also, stop upvoting all your own posts, it's very obvious and pathetic.
Thats what I thought, you can only shittalk but when I wanna prove you wrong = aint reading that
cya
tong5 [#32]Thats what I thought, you can only shittalk but when I wanna prove you wrong = aint reading that
cya
You can't think for yourself so you let the AI do the thinking, no point in arguing with someone who can't form his own opinions.
Rakooon [#33]You can't think for yourself so you let the AI do the thinking, no point in arguing with someone who can't form his own opinions.
No point talking with a guy that gets angry at random anonymous guy at random forum under random comment because he pressed +1 near his comment, and a tiktok brain guy that cant read more than 2 sentences
severfield [#30]Tier 2 demons definitely are typically more hungry/driven, I won't disagree with you there. They're probably cheaper than a former t1 pro 9/10 times too. If you have a few solid seasoned veterans and a good coach (unfortunately seems to be a unicorn in 2026) a tier 2 demon probably makes more sense. They HAVE to be coachable though, which can potentially be tough with a young player.
While Demon1 and yay both flopped after leaving the team they won internationals on, I think they may be two of the worst examples because they were both the star duelist/chamber player where their teams basically focused on nothing but setting them up for success. They both switched roles to more supportive roles, like having Demon1 on Astra/Brim in NRG. Demon1 has also been looking more confident and in form now that he is playing more comfortable roles for him. He'll never hit the form he did in 2023 EG, but I think he's still a solid player, just not very flexible. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see yay in t1 again. C9 fucked his confidence and career cutting him when/how they did. Then he got fucked over by BLEED. He's also too inflexible imo to be a top player again.
I really hope this new format next year will help with having a higher number of games per year for teams. Obviously don't want players to burn out, but it's just crazy to me how few times you get to see some teams play. So hard to find a good identity, especially with the meta changes with agent balancing as often as it happens.
the examples I used were merely ones that helped my point of needing teams to play around them. Also Demon1 literally played brim and astra on EG during their runs, this isn’t something new to him
cirruss [#35]the examples I used were merely ones that helped my point of needing teams to play around them. Also Demon1 literally played brim and astra on EG during their runs, this isn’t something new to him
Yeah, that's fair. I forgot he played Brim on Fracture and some Astra for EG. Was thinking that didn't start until NRG, that's on me.
Gotta say it's been surprisingly refreshing to actually have an intelligent discussion on this website lmao I typically just lurk because a lot of people on this site are too reactionary and childish to actually have a discussion with.
severfield [#36]Yeah, that's fair. I forgot he played Brim on Fracture and some Astra for EG. Was thinking that didn't start until NRG, that's on me.
Gotta say it's been surprisingly refreshing to actually have an intelligent discussion on this website lmao I typically just lurk because a lot of people on this site are too reactionary and childish to actually have a discussion with.
it really is, everyone ignores a ton of nuance that exists around conversations like these. glad to be a part of one w u
cirruss [#37]it really is, everyone ignores a ton of nuance that exists around conversations like these. glad to be a part of one w u
I've been saying for years that no one (VLR and just in general) understands nuance anymore. Critical thinking is non-existent these days, and people seem to be too reactive.
Glad I got to interact with another normal human being! Hope you have a great weekend, and your pillow is always the perfect temperature!
severfield [#38]I've been saying for years that no one (VLR and just in general) understands nuance anymore. Critical thinking is non-existent these days, and people seem to be too reactive.
Glad I got to interact with another normal human being! Hope you have a great weekend, and your pillow is always the perfect temperature!
you too!
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