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Based ThinkingManValo

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#1
no_noise_979

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1523008100?t=03h08m46s

the truth about victor and deffo

#2
YvngKurry
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The fact that I don’t see cryo on that list throws everything out.

#3
no_noise_979
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he said cryo stats are worse than he thought theyd be

#6
GLN321
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Found real life trembolona

#8
YvngKurry
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Cus he had an avg group stage run. He really woke up in playoffs tbh.

#10
no_noise_979
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but u cant just ignore bad performances, u have to take everything into consideration

#14
kyrielight
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yes, taking everything into consideration he was average, that's exactly his point.

#48
number1_MIBR_hater
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cryo? not good with raze

#32
symbols07
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tell cryo to do something to be on the list, man has the worst stats(among those who people want to be in the top 20 list), and utterly horrible fk fd ratio while playing chamber and jett

#35
GLN321
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Whats the point on using stats when comparing players that play in NA vs a player that plays in Latam/Kr

#43
symbols07
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thats his list and he weighs players according to their region as well, there is a reason why only derke and yay are the chamber only players in his list that high

#36
YvngKurry
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Idk if we have been watching the same games lol. The impact he has had in playoffs is insane. I do admit he had an avg group stage run but hes back to being insane

#40
poopboyofficial
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yes but the thing that sold it was the fk to fd ratio, almost 1 to 1, for a nearly exclusive chamber oper, that is bad

#52
GLN321
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Derke’s fk/fd ratio in the past 30 days is also almost 1 to 1, that by itself is not reason enough for anything

#76
poopboyofficial
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the difference is that fk/fd has a huge impact, k/d is not nearly as important. you are connecting 2 diff stats incorrectly

#77
GLN321
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Just saw this; I didnt talk about kd

#44
symbols07
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lol that way remove all the bad games from derke's matches and he will have 350 acs? but that isnt how we measure stats.that isnt how the game works, if his playoffs form is his true form then he has to prove that now when he has got the chance again, as easy as that

#4
meyournightmare
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forsaken or jingg are not top 10?

#13
ItsMeDio
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he still not make his top 10

#17
kyrielight
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they def gonna end up there, it's not complete yet

#5
HaSanity
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i like what he said about deffo too

#7
no_noise_979
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same

#9
deathlyclawsXD
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Really good take

#11
ItsMeDio
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i couldn't believe Thinking Man's valo exposed Tenz
wtf
so harsh man

we heckin love tenz

#12
mauge67
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why does this guy not get any clout hes probably a better analyst than 99% of the mainstream ones including the fraudchat etc

#15
GLN321
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Lmao why do people worship this guy, he does exactly the same that platchat does, yall just randomly decided to dislike them and like him

#18
Sprouts
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I like the Plat Chat boys and watch Sideshow and Bren’s streams often, but they did an awful job at ranking the Korean players. This guy at least realized that MaKo and BuZz are the best players while Plat Chat still believe stax and Rb are better, which just shows how little they watch the region

#20
GLN321
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If they ranked rb higher than those two then it has to be because they watched their regional run, no one in their right mind would say that otherwise if they only saw his performances at masters

#22
misaquartz
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uhm i agree but rb performed 100 times better domestically than internationally doesn't that mean they watched vct kr as well? i maybe they still believe in rb potential? im just explaining ur reasoning btw nothing against what u said, mako and buzz definitely better than rb (ill argue about stax though)

#38
BBL_Wtcn
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Plat chat is always down on EU which really annoys me sometimes but their points are not that bad

#21
inlucid
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maybe cuz clout doesn't depend on being a good analyst? PlatChat members have worked their viewership throughout years

#41
Zzizmo
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Plat chat didn’t put RB highly recently because they are worried that he would choke in international competition again but have buzz and Mako high

#16
yaiima0
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The top 10 is good atleast lol

#19
Daniveus
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I was watching the stream, actual objective analysis no bias.

#23
NG1nS
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i hope u guys can help me with this bcz i can't quite explain it well in english and bcz i don't have the terminology in esports.
there is a difference between sliggy(example) and him, he mostly talks about individual decisions, players game sense and stats that really doesn't feel like a team analysis but an individual one like he doesn't talk about the team plays or the bigger picture but he talks more on the details and the small stuff and i know it's part of the game but he sometimes talks about the right play and mistakes in hindsight if u know what i mean, it's easier to point them out when ur a spectator and for that i feel his type of analysis is not that interesting ig ( i watched 3 games with him so the sample size might be small ) that's how i feel sorry for the bad english

  • On the other hand sliggy(or lothar) talks about decisions and stuff but mostly he talks about the bigger picture and how certain decisions made by the team could alter the results(how a sage wall or a smoke can mean so much for example i remember lothar talking about something that sounds very simple but it had a great impact on a whole side EXAMPLE : ACEND vs GMB on split, acend was putting a sage wall on A on defense every round and keeping mostly the sage on A watching vents while focusing more on b and mid, while it sounds normal like they want to wall one side to take control of it, lothar said that the wall won them 4 or more rounds on defense bcz they cut nats lurking, he would play solo A and lurk normally but that wall did two things he allowed acend to foxus more people on mid where gambit was defaulting and cut nats's lurk on A and bcz gambit didn't break that wall or didn't understand how to play around it at first it gave acend a huge advantage on defense they kinda destroyed gambit's gameplan from the get go and by the time they figured they need to break it and make pressure on A acend took their rounds. Anyway he explained it with more detail but i thought this is something maybe we overlook and it's nice to see people like sliggy or lothar talk about it ) and about reading the game in general which is something that makes it more entertaining for me atleast in general he talks about the stuff that aren't easy to see imo
    I think that's the difference between an analyst and a coach (could be wrong ) but imo watching thinkingmansvalo is somewhat boring bcz u can notice everything he's saying (maybe lower elo or new to the game would find them interesting) but sliggy mentions more important stuff that people actually miss sometimes and it gives the game more how do i say this more depth ig
    what do u guys think?

sorry for the long post 😬

#25
archetype
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Read everything, and I don't disagree. Of course Sliggy will be able to give a more nuanced, in-depth view of rounds - he's a certified top-level coach who managed one of the best teams in the world. TMV seems to rely a bit too much on the numbers, and despite what people may say, Lothar has good analysis as well.

#26
NG1nS
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yeah a 100% i just wanted to ask people who watched esports longer is what thingman's analysis is what an analyst does on a team and sliggy's what a coach does? or it's not like that

#34
Rebellion2408
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Closely enough yes

#37
archetype
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while analysts do rely on the statistics a TON, they're not necessarily limited to it and can offer input onto the inner machinations of a game. ThinkMan is just a super statistics-oriented analyst imo. Lothar is also an analyst but provides more depth into the game.

#27
Hewcho
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if one pro player gets so much kills or do some flashy things in esports they say that he's too god but actually that is not that important i think. The thing is decision making, consistency, and giving calls good, these kinda things are more important and now acend is trialing deffo. He's bad rn at m3c but that could be because of chaning strategies, game plan etc... thats why bonecold left acend, he himself said that.

#31
wohe
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hmm nice analysis wink wink, get it ?

#64
wohe
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downvoters has no sense of humor

#24
xLeo
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ThinkingManValoRant

#28
KyLZi
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He as some great takes. I kind of feel like its the role the teams give those players too though right? Go in first into a site where good players are anchoring and ready to kill you and trying to get traded out. idk I think those stats have to do with how those players are utilized in the team as well.

#29
Revlo
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4 Loud players in the top 20, and only 2 opTic players yet opTic 3-0 Loud? Wtf is this dogshit list.

#30
Hewcho
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no tenz in top1 so bad list

#33
symbols07
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2 people making top 20 is good enough, other players dont give good enough performances according to his measuring system on the list.

#42
Revlo
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his measuring system is terrible then.

#45
symbols07
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lmfao you want your igl who gets 150 acs in the list or the duelist whose only skill is space creation but cant win a duel when entrying

#49
Revlo
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https://www.vlr.gg/85530/loud-vs-optic-gaming-valorant-champions-tour-stage-1-masters-reykjav-k-gf

This is what happens when Loud isnt destroying a farmer region.

#50
babysasuke
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let them have their copium for now

its all gonna run out this weekend

#78
Barre
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yup, you were right.

#79
babysasuke
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Always am

#46
WinterZ
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because most of the OpTic players are worse than average in the acs department. Victor is good at making space but his stats are meh. FNS is a world class IGL but his stats are paltry. Crashies has some of the most impactful sova util of any player to touch the game (aside from maybe enzo) but his stats arent good either. TMV runs a lot on stats because those other things arent quantifiable. In an ideal world they'd be up there but at the end of the day, he's only human and nobody is perfect. So this is what we have and this is what you need to accept.

#47
Revlo
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wow loud can farm acs in a farmer region LMAO.

#70
WinterZ
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bruh u really just read the first and last sentence then made this comment. If you actually took the time to read the post you'd see that I'm agreeing with you bozo

#72
Revlo
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I wasnt arguing against you bozo. I was just laughing at the fact that this guy is putting 4 loud players for inflated stats in a farmer region.

#39
brado
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i think there is some misoverstanding going on with that list. thinking way too hard or something because its really not complicated, his list is wonky af

#55
UnrivaleD
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agreed he trynna pull a weird ass list so everyone would say wow we never thought of that and ended up looking stupid af

#51
UnrivaleD
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the mf doesnt have scream or any liquid player in his list lol , he tryna give weird ass list so he can look deep and knows stuff that nobody can , delusional brainless

#53
babysasuke
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Thats because Liquid is not good? Have been bad at every international event? Cant win in EMEA?

The best thing he did was keep TL players off of a tier list

#54
UnrivaleD
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you know that individual performance and trophies are different for ex: s1mple was considered the best player in cs years before he could win a major right?

#56
babysasuke
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I dont watch or play that dog shit game

#57
UnrivaleD
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calling cs a dogshit game speaks volumes xd

#58
babysasuke
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as does the TL flair brother

Scream should go back to csgo, rest can retire

#60
UnrivaleD
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well im a tl fan , but i have stats to back my claim , scream was match/team mvp in 80% of the tl games (since day one impressive stat) he pulled the team on his back so hard , to the extent that if he doesnt perform insanely they lose , for ex last guild game bcz he was although okay but not insane they lost, also while playin multiple roles sage iniator all duelist, he qualified his team to lans and took them far ahead and they let him down he even fucking igl ffs cuz no one can and stil topfrag on hard raze role, if all this doesnt make him at least in top five what else can , the thikin man guy was pulling shit of his ass after a a poop

#61
babysasuke
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relax im not reading all that

#63
UnrivaleD
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if you cant carry a converstaion like a grown up you might aswell stfu and save us energy for starters

#66
babysasuke
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youre spending your energy trying to convince me that TL players are among the best in the world

theyre not, or they would be winning in SHITMEA, the easiest region

you should grow up

#62
UnrivaleD
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all these chambers one tricks will signficantly fall of after chamber nerf you will see

#71
WinterZ
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4rd at M2 2021
3rd at Champs 2021
7th at M2 2022 (stand-in team btw)

idk about you but those dont seem like bad performances to me

#59
no_noise_979
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its only for copenhagen players

i agree scream is top 10 itw

#65
Hewcho
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its only for copenhagen dude lmao

#67
UnrivaleD
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well ma bad then , the post has no contest

#69
Hewcho
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i was the same at first sayin "where is starxo?" but then i saw it says copenhagen

#73
bonkashi
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ThinkingMansValo relies far too much on stats, taking numbers into higher consideration that actual in game impact. His analysis and takes are always surface level stuff that a bronze could notice given a few seconds. I agree that people use d3ffo and victors space creation as an excuse too much, but he forgets that the fact that both players have teams full of world class individual talent behind them, trading them and utilizing the space they take effectively, making them getting kills less necessary overall.

#74
X_ae_A_12
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I saw someone comment this in his comments section after he posted the fnatic vid and it summed it up perfectly of what people actually want to see: "Personally I would like u to go more out of depth, (not a diss but just my preference) in the future, can you show us their defaults, and potentially how they fundamentally play valorant than other teams? (Aggressive, passive, whatever works, how chaotic they are, how they thrive in chaos), or is everyone the same and there’s less theory and more micro play? Questions such as, are they playing valorant the right way, or are they utilising their full player potential. Idk if this seems a bit obtuse but I would like answers to some of these questions. It’s kind of like anti stratting I guess but what u showed us wasn’t the whole picture , if you can’t answer this, then can you tell us what to look out for, or what questions to ask ourselves when figuring out a team, or how to go about figuring out their fundamental thought process... this seems like a really difficult task but a person can wonder. Personally I am just a casual but it seems like a really interesting topic."

#75
doosean
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ThinkingMansValo and, also often praised and criticized, ValorantAscended are content creators. Their analysis does not go into the greatest depth trying to point out why a team does something when the creative plays they portray are covered in their videos. It is not a matter of analyzing the game like the team analyst and coach would do in a pro scene, but rather something along the lines of "let's break down PRX A executes on Bind". Their play-by-play analysis allows them to nitpick rounds from a game for content. They do not focus on the whole game and the bigger picture for that purpose. They do not create anti-strats based on their opponents' tendencies, or something like that.

In my opinion, ThinkingMansValo's stream is both entertaining and educational to a certain extent, because you can 100% utilize his play breakdowns and analysis. It is not supposed to be LotharHS or Sliggy type of analysis, so some of the slander, like many others is just disrespectful.

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