But the content...

Just a bit a banter

I think he could 1 for 1 Penny on Omen

I think we are over-estimating the effect of swapping out a player, even one as amazing and unique as Nats, and we are also under-estimating how successful PUG/PRX style Valorant can be even against top teams.

Yeah I can help whats the Riot ID?

Tenz with the entire scene/Riot. Lowk someone explain to me why he turned down a Sentinels bag to do exactly the same shit he would have done without it?

"Yes, some require lineups for this, but some, like Astra, do not." - What a disingenuous comparison LMAO, the gravity well doesn't also kill and destroy utility, also "but some" aka the rest of your examples are ultimate abilities...

"The issue people had with Tejo was that he hard cleared too much space too frequently in long rounds so it felt exceptionally oppressive to hold site against." - Agree have been saying this the entire time... it is almost like you are screeching without reading what is being said...

"Giving him recharge back now would not give him multiple uses of double salvo unless you waited a whole 80 seconds from the first use, since it'd only recharge single satchels. This practically halves his effectiveness compared to pre-nerf" - Yes it does practically halve the amount of salvos he has in a round going from 6 Max with 3 sets of Double Salvos to 4 Max with a couple different combinations (2,1,1/1,2,1/1,1,2/2,2/1,1,1,1). Once again not a point I am contesting if you go back to the first reply I sent to you I said your nerf is better than the current Tejo and 10.09 Tejo, but it is not a healthy agent.

"Please read what is being said instead of just screeching that his signature is broken. It was broken. They nerfed it. Too hard, in fact."

Ok so far your examples for why I am not reading what you are saying are points that I have been agreeing with you from the start but adding caveats to... interesting

"All you are suggesting is to rework him so similar to Breach you would only ever pick the better one of the two. And on absolutely 0 basis, given he can absolutely fixed without completely retooling him for no reason."

Only ever pick the better of the two? So like how we only pick Omen over Astra and Brim because Omen is obviously the best orb smoker. Or like how we only pick Sova over Fade because they occupy the same niche? What is funnier is that one of the entire points I had pushing Tejo into a similar niche as Breach was to break up their pairing and change the meta. So the community can complain about Breach and Tejo being used together and coating every surface of site with synergized utility, but we can't imagine that the best solution to solving this problem without killing one of the agents is by making them a redundant pairing. I then in my original post outline how they will be different and was expecting to have some sort of dialogue about relative balancing between the two and strength map to map as well as overall. Go fish I guess.

"him being a post plant agent isn't an issue cuz it just streamlines postplant to kill Tejo"

It is an issue, and yes the best way to not deal with any agent is to kill them... that argument does nothing for you. In case you have forgotten, playing post plant with the reliability and safety of Tejo is NOT healthy for the game. An Initiator without a refreshing cooldown is NOT healthy for the game. These two statements mean Tejo needs to be changed fundamentally.

"The issue was how MUCH he could do that AND create pressure throughout a round."

EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING. Initiators need to be able to make pressure in different windows within a round, but that doesn't mean their cooldown needs to be a double salvo that deletes util and kills full armor players. Tejo needs a useful cooldown, not a broken one, changing the signature into stun salvos does that. In addition it makes Tejo and Breach comps largely redundant, why do you need two Initiators with a stun CD?

Breach is not meant to be a solo Initiator, so non-mirror winnrate isn't the best statistic to measure his health in the game. The interactions between Initiator pairs such as current Tejo/Breach, Sova/Kayo, and even non-traditional initiating pairs like Tejo/Deadlock all have great impact on each agent's effectiveness. Non-mirror winrate is a fast stat to point to but does a horrible job of telling the full story.

As for Tejo's design, yes he was designed that way; THE molly initiator with the motto "Move or Die". There is a fundamental flaw with this design and this playback loop. Good Initiators have cooldowns that allow them multiple windows to use util to gather info, take advantageous fights, or win util trades. Without cooldowns Initiators are not flexible enough throughout the round to provide the value their team needs. Mollies that are either lethal or reliably break deployed utility are great abilities, Lethal mollies on cooldown you can easily and safely place is just too broken.

My changes keep the spirit of Tejo, "Move or Die", while directly addressing the part of the kit that is fruitless to balance. Too powerful or too short of CD and he is broken, no CD or not powerful and he is useless, even with the middle ground change you propose, he is still going to be optimally played as a post plant denial agent. Get rid of the flawed ability cooldown, give him a new niche that doesn't shatter his character, and shake up the Breach/Tejo meta.

You must not have been here for the Yoru rework...

I will ask you is nerfing the key agent used by the qualifying teams going to make play better or worse at Master's Toronto? It will surely be different, but these teams haven't proved they are good at playing in a different meta at least not recently. They have proved they are good at playing in a Tejo meta. "Might as well be a new agent" ok lets not be super dramatic here, I didn't discover fire or invent the wheel. I took the stun ability he already had and put it on an Ipad like you say. Then I took the cancerous part of his kit that is broken on recharge and turned it into the same thing as a breach aftershock, but also on an Ipad like you said. Maybe you misunderstood the changes I proposed, but this is by no means a new agent and is very similar to current Tejo aesthetically if that is what you are worried about. The rework is to change his gameplay loop which is broken fundamentally and push him into a similar niche as his best partner Breach so that it is less likely they are used together.

I mean that change is better than broken Tejo and useless Tejo but it still rewards him for being a post plant merchant and probably wouldn't shake up Breach + Tejo meta. Still better than nothing, but Riot made two mistakes: 1. Putting mollies on a cooldown when they released Tejo and 2. Removing the cooldown from an Initiator for the 2nd time. Fixing Tejo in a way that changes the meta means bigger changes, making one salvo come back at a time isn't big enough to change the meta even if it reduces Tejo's overall strength.

The price changes were fine, ult increase was alright even though istg I see more pros miss and waste that ult than any other ult. They could just make the damage salvos come back slower, I just wanted to give a different take because post plant meta is boring and balancing a point and click molly on cooldown is just a fruitless task. Situationally it will always be insane and always annoying, by making Tejo a Breach rival it might also shake up the comps which is what Riot wants at the pro level.

Removing cooldown from an Initiator is killing them. Sure Tejo in best case scenario with Deadlock you hit a net and salvo combo, but if you do that you only have one salvo left for post plant. I have seen this take A LOT, I think in theory their is some merit to what you say about post plant strength and combo with partial initiators like Deadlock, Yoru, and Vyse, however you can't eat your cake and have it too. If Tejo is the best post plant agent, that means he only has a stun and a drone to default, exec and take a site, because you need to save both of your salvos to be strong in the post plant. One stun and one drone cannot take a site, even with Deadlock or with another strong Initiator by his side. So if you cannot take a site because of Tejo's lack of util, how do you ever utilize him in a post plant? That is not to mention the fact that even if you could take sites and use him for double salvo post plant, that is a cancer niche and not needed in this game. When you want to get rid of an annoying playstyle you don't need to completely kill an agent, and we should not encourage them to balance by killing agents, that is just less content.

Once 10.09 hits yeah

TLDR: Tejo needs to be turned into a Breach rival, get rid of his current stun ability, give him his cooldown salvos back but turn them into circle stuns you can place on the map, the empty ability slot becomes purchasable damage dealing salvo like he normally has.

I like the idea of being able to stun two different areas with the cooldown, however the size of the circle should be tuned so it doesn't cover as much area as Breach. With my balance idea Tejo becomes an easier version of Breach that trades flashes for drone info. Breach can stun more overall area and Initiate more fights with his flashes, however Tejo is easy to pick up and the flash gap can be fixed in other roles like duelist with Yoru, Phoenix, even Reyna. Tejo would still be strong with my changes, but not must play like he is now and not trapped in the shadow realm like he will be going forward.

Tejo on release was insanely broken, turns out rockets that clear out util and kill players on cooldown is strong. -> Community and Pros Complain -> Riot overcompensates and nerfs the agent into the shadow realm. Classic

The issue with Tejo was he had insane flexibility and potency, especially once combined with another heavy util dump exec aggro (whatever word you wanna use) Initiator. The most recent nerf Riot made turns Tejo's best case scenario into getting value with drone and stun and then using double salvo for 20 seconds of post plant denial... actual cancer and that assumes you don't need to use the rockets to take space like Initiators are typically asked to do... "Move or die".

Just wanted to see if ppl were paying attention

Hosting a qualifier in a Tejo based meta then immediately nerfing him into oblivion for the tournament you qualified teams for is braindead.

Thats fine if the good teams know, I wish we got to see all 8 playoff teams play in a new meta without Tejo. That would have more accurately tested which teams deserve to be at this tournament and would have given viewers insight into what teams think the meta will be.

Consistency is key, would you wanna watch the best Basketball players attempt to play Soccer at the World Cup? My answer is no

Chamber meta was actually so fun to watch but tbf all the pro players talk about it like a horror movie. El Diablo King of Hell traumatized them

Whatever Riot employee that is paid to read thru this cesspool pass this message along to your brainless fucking dev team. Why are you hosting qualifiers in a meta that completely relies on strategies and player proficiency on Tejo only to nerf that agent to the ground for the very tournament they qualified for? That would be like if I had all the 100m sprinters around the world do time trials to qualify for a tournament only to then make them run a marathon in the Olympics. You are wasting both the planning, development, and knowledge that went into making good teams in this meta as well as the spectacle of an International Tournament. Why am I tuning into Master's Toronto to watch the best teams of the Tejo meta give their own interpretation of where they think the game is going? I am not against making meta changes during the season, but pick moments that make sense instead of just wasting everyone's fucking time. Why not make the changes before playoffs? Or part way through the season? Or anytime that isn't right before you have one of your 3 biggest viewership events. And sure there is the argument that some of these teams have no problem adapting and that better teams should have the skill to adapt, great point, let them do that before you decide who qualifies. If the point of Master's Toronto was to have a new meta (cause lets be honest, Tejo meta is just as cancer as 2022 Chamber meta, actually worse from a viewership standpoint too) why not introduce that change in playoffs? So that we at least see if the competitive teams in each region benefit from meta changes. The incompetence of this balancing team is truly astounding, give me 10 nerds to change the code and schedule and I will have this game fixed in a day.

What killed the double controller meta of 2023? Was it just the viper nerfs? Or was it Skye losing the ability to use 4+ flashes in an average round that gave info and couldn't be broken? The devs turned a solid agent, even before Harbor/Viper into a dog poo agent rarely picked outside of Bind by a few teams that couldn't implement Fade/Gekko. I don't disagree that Tejo needs nerfs I simply am saying that getting rid of signature ability recharge kills agents. Especially Initiators, who need to effectively 1. Gather Info and 2. Enable Advantageous Fights.

Play out a hypothetical round for Tejo before nerfs: Double salvo to default, drone, salvo recharge, stun, exec on site, plant, play post plant with 3rd salvo recharge. That is 6 salvos....

Now with the nerfs he has 2 salvos, so in that standard sequence I just laid out pick where you salvo...

Look at the other two agents with no ability recharge: Skye and Brimstone. Where are they played? Oh basically only on Bind/Fracture.

So yes, you do replace Tejo with Kayo, and you probably add a Sova too. Every other Initiator with signature ability recharge has more options. In the words of a very smart fella: its crazy that some people need this to be explained to them

WE HAVE PLAYED THESE GAMES BEFORE

Any initiator with recharge utility is better. Sova instantly clears him in everyway. Breach is only lacking in information comparatively, that is the one slight advantage. Recharge util means more chances to hit sites, say your first plan doesn't work, say you want to default, Tejo with no rechargeable ability is useless. That is the entire point of the game, especially at the pro level. Flexibility combined with efficacy. With these nerfs Tejo loses a substantial portion of his flexibility and his total capability within a given round.

Removing the cooldown is an insta-kill, there is zero reason to pick him over any other initiator.

Removing the signature ability cooldown is as good as killing the agent. Full stop end of story I will not listen to anyone's reasons. Riot balance team is fucking brainless for doing this a second time and especially brainless cause they just fucking added him.

Removing the cooldown is a horrible way to balance agents especially Initiators. Skye is dead with no hope of revival and Tejo will soon join her. Also if we have a qualifier in one meta we should keep the main tournament in that meta or roughly that meta. Why would I want to see good teams struggle with comp change implementation problems in a Masters tournament? I hope the Masters is played on 10.08 and not the Tejo nerf 10.09, if not then it's a Mickey Mouse tournament.

Generous woman, loves her son's entire team...

Alright kiddos, one hour until games start. Have we learned our lesson from yesterday? Hmmmmmmmmmm? Gonna filter the team comms???????? Gonna maybe check and double check that you aren't airing some out of pocket shit??????? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

ty you as well

GE org CEO replied to this tweet, unlikely in my eyes the org told him to take it down. The tweet is hardly the drama, the content of the tweet is. The drama wasn't in accepting the scrim, but the alleged scrim leaking between GENG, GENG Academy, and other Pacific Rosters. If you and the other coaches like trolling each other with pracc requests that is fine, the fanbase does not care. What we want is a competitive scene with clear rules. If some teams are leaking scrims that is a major issue to make this game less competitive and is against the current rules.

Lowk tin-foil hat time, but anyone with a job in the scene dismissing these claims is SUS. Why aren't you encouraging RIOT to investigate this? What would they find if they investigate you?

Any and all teams caught sharing VODS or leaking scrims should be removed from the VCT, all guilty academy/T2 teams should be removed from their respective competitions as well. All players and coaches found guilty should be perma banned from professional competition. Go back an investigate all communications between teams all the way to 2024 Master's Shanghai, maybe even earlier. Can RIOT games employ someone who isn't going to just be a door mat and actually enforce some of the rules? Letting this disease fester will kill the e-sport, remove the bad actors now and make better rules for the future.

Edit adding this: Lowk tin-foil hat time, but anyone with a job in the scene dismissing these claims is SUS. Why aren't you encouraging RIOT to investigate this? What would they find if they investigate you?

MODS/SITE DEVS WANTED IF NOT THAT PERSON GO TO OTHER THREAD

STEP 1: Go to VCT Pacific/China Stage 1 page

STEP 2: Look at group columns, specifically green/red trim for qualifiers and round differential

STEP 3: Notice slight border display error

OPTIONAL STEP 4: Click into Group Alpha and press left and right arrow keys

STEP 5: FIX PLS

Naw playing solo Clove on the big maps should be a bannable offense

Halls is a problem more for pros and coordinated play IMO, when I play Breeze typically we have a trip/wall/someone holding. But I do agree getting killed from a Halls lurk is annoying af. I gotta say though when the map was in rotation with no halls it felt really weird.

You are right about him being sneaky good on a lot of maps but nobody plays him anyway, on Breeze a potato could get value out of Harbor so easy to use honestly a W

That's tough g. You need a Sova/Tejo duo

Every other map when I get an insta lock Jett and Chamber on my team=Madge
Breeze with insta lock Jett and Chamber=Peak Gaming

Honestly an over hated map, does have some issues but overall should not be #1 on everybody hate list just cause some pros said they don't like it a few metas ago. Icebox, Sunset, and Pearl all exist and have much worse problems.

Long aim duels+
Big sites so you aren't automatically hit by 4 pieces of util on exec
Lurking is strong on the map
Opping/Sniping off barrier drop
Movement agents have tons of space
Harbor is actually useful
Music feature...

The main con of the map are the shear amount of high/lows you have to clear but with the current util heavy meta it honestly isn't horrible, I def understand not liking this map but hating is unreasonable. Life's a beach

Brother Iso is the new Kayo, Clove is a team agent with lineups, and Waylay is about to make us all wish for the Neon meta

Obviously these nerfs are kind of the point, if this meta was around for so long it must be strong and to change the game you need to redistribute power. But damn this is just blatant no? Some of us liked boring Ascent meta it was like the map's niche. Now with each agent released and balance update the Ascent Standard Comp agents suffer in comparison or as a result of new abilities.

Jett is clearly weaker than Waylay in almost every way

Omen got his one-ways nerfed into the ground, Astra big buff last patch, Clove "nerf" this patch that makes them better IMO

KJ was countered completely by Tejo after already being less flexible and weaker than Cypher or Vyse

Sova + Kayo are still viable but often not optimal, Tejo + Breach is the new generally accepted strongest initiator pair

It seems RIOT may think they even overdid the KJ changes, they had to break norms of other damage abilities for Tejo missle/KJ lockdown interaction so a cooldown can't kill a 9 cost ult

Make Ascent Boring Again

I knew before I even knew. Thing is... I just wish I knew

Reply to me with a link again you clown

https://www.vlr.gg/449011/g2-esports-vs-t1-champions-tour-2025-masters-bangkok-gf

I thought it would be just the chess uniform cause Magnus Carlson was wearing it, glad other teams are getting cool jerseys. Liquid has been one of the goats of one off jerseys imo ever since NA CS Liquid. 2023 Valorant Star Wars combo was sick too.

Title.

Ok so Leaf sorry you just did it so it is fresh in my mind but I see so many Vipers use the pit to cover plant, then proceed to run to an area the pit will expand to, and get shot because they are planting in the open for even a 2ish seconds. STAY INSIDE THE PIT, WAIT TO PLANT, DO ANYTHING ELSE. YOU ARE PLANTING IN THE OPEN, PPL ARE PEAKING OFF OF THE BOMB SOUND AND THERE YOU ARE JUST SITTING THERE. I see so many goddamn pros doing this bullshit and never in my piss elo games. Just unnecessary risk and careless.

Even if they lock in Estrella still wins for KR...

Truly unavoidable

Look at the placings for the APAC tournament...

The 3 franchised Korean teams are top 3: GENG, DRX, T1

The Korean Ascension team placed 5th/6th in their first year...

4th and the other of 5th/6th teams, Talon and DFM all have at least two KR players

Other sick KR talent in Tier 1: GE Udotan, TEC Rb, JDG Stew

Each of the franchised KR teams have an Academy team with promising players...

Is there any hope for the rest of Pacific if PRX keep trolling and Talon always choke?

I'll steal your bf

Huitzilopochtli
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1000 posts in less than a year

Allat

Mjtchell
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5k posts
Brother go outside