Jawgemo. the champ mang

Rank the best players on Fnatic during Derke's chamber year vs the later run.

Here's a few references that might come in handy
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1014/valorant-champions-tour-stage-2-masters-copenhagen
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1015/valorant-champions-2022

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https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1188/champions-tour-2023-lock-in-s-o-paulo
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1494/champions-tour-2023-masters-tokyo
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1657/valorant-champions-2023

I'm looking forward to reading your response!

still beat LOUD who were 2022 world champions. that itself is enough of a credibility

No, thats just you wishing it was.

riot did say it was the first event of franchise so they had to come up with a different format

Yeah, we know that, thats because it was meant to be an event to show off the teams in franchising, which is why they were all invited, which is also why they had to make it single elim otherwise it would take forever, cuz in no real prestigious event would you just invite every team with no qualification process.

and single elim is the hardest route in vct ever to reach a grand final

Maybe the hardest, but definitely the one with the least competitive integrity. It's why some teams that sucked all year looked good (geng, navi, leviathan), and vice versa (prx).

Yes and it wasn't controversial. Lets go back in the time to the famous "role issues" debacle

https://youtu.be/n6_6SK9BsR8?si=NhxKM66iD7udlk9g

Title of the vid explicitly calls him the best player.

YT comment 1: Yay is so good that the only thing stopping him from going pro is finding an org that can afford him
YT comment 2: Imagine being the goat and losing your job because the org you trusted is broke
YT comment 3: DSG just signed Yay.. dropping all his team, Yay is expected to 1v5 M80, 13-0, all 69 maps
YT comment 4 : Imagine being the goat and losing your job because the org you trusted is broke

And there are countless more examples like this - reddit threads, vlr comments, yt comments, tweets, etc.
This was the perception of yay at that time

You can argue him in the top 5. Rn mine is

1. Meteor
2. Benjy
3. Alfajer
   ----------------------- Tier Gap
4. Leaf
5. Yetujey
   But you can argue for Nats at 5th, as can you suygetsu.

No, actually they (barely) beat a team that had the core of the 2022 world champions, but with a new roster, in a preseason event which was, true enough an official vct event, but conspicuously wasn't named "Masters" or "Champions" like every event before it, after it, and in the announced future (I wonder why that is? What makes it different from all the rest?).

https://www.vlr.gg/357911/world-s-best-senti-at-the-moment

A thread from just a few days ago where the most upvoted comment is that Nats is the best senti in the world, over Meteor, Benjyfishy, Yetujey, Alfajer, Leaf, all of them.

I agree he's one of but having him as THE best in the world right now is delusion and drugs, it's clearly meteor. There is no rational way you can have him as no1 until he can start winning games and putting up numbers internationally (ie: get off lulquid). Until then he can't even be near top 3 senti lists unless he is literally putting up wilt chamberlain stats, let alone top 10 player lists.

I 100% agree and i'm glad you finally understand. Now you can see why he's so high on the list. For example, a thread from just three days ago where the most upvoted comment says that he's the best senti in the world RIGHT NOW.

https://www.vlr.gg/357911/world-s-best-senti-at-the-moment

Let me ask you a question. Where in your top 10 list of players in the world right now is Keznit? He's clearly the best player on kru and bails them out in situations and even maps. His stats were basically only second to aspas this year. Is he in your top 10 players right now? or do you acknowledge that you don't get into that status if your team is missing lans and you're not winning the matches in the lans that you do get to, even if we all know you're a really good player. Now unless you tell me which rank keznit is in your top 10 list, you have to tell me why Nats doesnt have these rules apply to him.

Why would it be a different timezone are you dumb lmao do you know where seoul is

yay was still considered the best player in the world at that time, above both of them. This is revisionist history.

It was a pre-season event to show off the teams in franchising. That's why there was no qualifiers (32 teams) and why it was single-elim. The trophy breaking is the cherry on top.

He played with Jammpi who is a good player. He played with Sayf who is a really good player. Soulcas was below average but not as bad as people gave him shit for. Redgar i'll give you. Mf's act like he played with spike rush players. That team should be beating team secret every time. Also YOU clearly didn't watch Liquid play. They set him up for lurks all the time. Go watch any haven match there was plenty of rounds they would insert him into A short or C long then go make noise elsewhere and he would lurk with it. It just wouldn't work half the time because what was a team-busting strat in 2021 isn't anymore as the level of play develops. For example, go watch EG vs Liquid haven round 10. He sits outside C long while his team hits B, they trade unfavorably and end up 1 man down. Meanwhile Nats lurks up C long and if this was 2021 he probably gets 1-2 people off-guard in C link and turns the tide of the round. But EG was proactive in the midround and pushed A and his lurk ends up with no value. They end up winning the round due to gunfights not due to the value of the lurk. The very next round (11). Nats once again gets a free lurk due to his team pushing A, this time through garage all the way through CT spawn, but EG once again converts off the numbers and Com is prepared and punishes the lurk. It should have been a flawless but boostio misses an ez kill on jammpi while the round is basically over.

Aspas
Less
Sacy
Pancada
and some 5th Clears

5/8

This comment is exactly why Flor is #1 on the list btw

We can't be putting players who have done close to nothing internationally for years in top ten lists. Its not because I think he's bad. I don't see Sayf or Cloud in top ten lists and don't bat an eye even though I think very highly of them. But for some reason people treat Nats as an exception to this.

Edit: I misunderstood the comment

Clutch rate is kinda a shit metric. This maybe controversial but i genuinely think the eye test is better. That stat doesnt take into account roles and situations. Alot of people who are gonna end up in 1v2's and 3's are gonna have a really low rate compared to people who end up in 1v1's. For example, im pretty sure Boaster had the highest clutch rate in the world for some time while EVERYONE knows Leo is the clutch god of that team. The reason is probably that he ends up in alot of 1v1's late in rounds where a guy is already dinked 140 by leo or chronicle or something and it's a relatively easier cleanup.

Compare how many times you hear aspas is the goat to how many times you hear it about Less. it might be close to 50-1 ratio even though they both have at least comparably strong cases

We are now close to 2 years into Franchising. Since then, he has a record of 1-5 (beat EDG) at international events, with his best rating being 1.12 (Sao Paolo)
For comparison Xeppa has exactly as many wins 1-1 (beat PRX) with a rating of 1.12 (Sao Paolo).
Now obviously I don't think xeppa is as good at nats. But alot of people have Nats as a top 10-15 player in the world which is ridiculous. He has been overrated for long time now, at a certain point you have to start winning for us to put you in that calibre.

There is a sizable portion of the Valorant Community which thinks Flor/SR deserve franchise offers

i watched this guy bully top t2 and franchised pros in a ten man months ago and followed him ever since

After Lock in there were threads saying Derke is the goat of val full stop

Overrated

1. Florescent and the rest of SR - Franchise worthy Players and Teams aren't getting washed by mocking on Reyna and a laptop player on Astra ON ASCENT
2. Nats - Nats has won 1 international series after losing to Acend in 2021. His prime was when Hiko played the game.
3. Chronicle - the best player on here, but he doesn't belong anywhere near the goat conversation. Hasn't been the best player on any team he played with (arguable not even top 3 on fnatic, although i think he is).
4. Sinatraa - We clown on BabyJ/Inspire for thinking he could be in franchising after playing ranked for 2 years, but for some reason we switch our brains off for sinatraa (he does have more potential tho, ill give him that).
5. Derke - Most people would put his chamber year as his best run, but he was not top 3 internationally (Yay, Cryo, Ardiss, arguable laz too) or the best regionally (ardiss). During the later fnatic run he was not even the best duelist regionally (sayf was clearly better all while losing everything on lulquid).And it's crystal clear those comparisons to aspas were pure delusion. Currently he's not even the best raze on his own team. He is consistently 3rd-6th ish on his role year to year, which is very impressive, but not more than that.

Underrated

1. Scream - He could actually be the best player in EMEA if he just focused on duelist and shooting and wasn't convinced he could IGL
2. Sacy - Most decorated player in the history of the game. Arguably most clutch ever (at the very least he has the most insane ones when the stakes are highest).And people are calling for his (beatiful and bald) head?
3. Cloud - Everyone knows he's good but some don't understand how good. Pls get this guy on a real team.
4. Less - Would be higher but everyone acknowledges he's insane. He belongs in the Goat convo alot more than the general public puts him there (people who really know ball do give him his flowers tho)
5. Spaz - This guy is up next on smokes just look him up.

Edit: I should mention the Criteria is their Ability vs the Popular Perception

Also all the people saying leo are braindead he's not even top 3 this year. Sacy Lakia and Riens have all clearly had a better year. Trent will have to if they win tonight

Sentinel - Senti list is good (maybe add leaf)
Duelist - aspas should replace miniboo (has won a match internationally + DOMINATED Regionally - kill record on SEN fresh off winning madrid)
Initiator - sacy obv belongs on the init list, 1 and 2 is sacy/lakia in either order, riens is 3rd
flex - looks good to me
controller - could maybe add Tenz, depends on whether you consider tenz a controller (he kinda only plays omen) Karon is clearly 1.

Also it would be better to wait until shanghai is done to do something like this.

If this is for premier just play the meta comp bro, its meta for a reason

nah

Shahzam with the white hoodie at walkout. Say whatever you wanna say about him, but it is simply a fact this is #1.

11-2

Trick

except when they had to play them to decide who wins the tournament

This is true but the valorant community being soft is also true

The first one was so mickey mouse even the universe knew and broke it. The second one has a huge asterisk by it because pacific MVP something was not allowed to attend, and prx has outperformed fnc at the every international event since. Also Ethan has both a CS major trophy and a champs trophy.

Well to be fair, that upper finals went to map 3 double OT even with Boostio having the 2nd worst series of his entire franchised career (i didnt check before) (1st was 100T vs SEN opening match fresh off them winning Madrid).

As for their 2023 champs run, can it really be considered a 'choke' if the other team is genuinely better? Most people have that EG team as a top 2-3 team OAT.

ill make a V3 after shanghai

bro thinks he's beating GenG with CGRS and Monyet

no igl = repeat of nrg's season so far lol

im sorry brotha i didnt have time to put and rank everybody in franchising, maybe after shanghai i'll make a v3

I still stand by my team from V1

Oxy (duelist) - $4
Can go head to head with anybody in the world. Insane on Jett, Raze, and Yoru. Elite with Awp, Rifle, Sheriff, everything. Kid is a constant 30 bomb threat.

Cloud (init) - $3
He's really good at Sova, Skye, Fade, Gekko, and Breach so basically has everything covered. Coulda went for Verno or Caunzin here too but i think his floor is higher.

Flyuh (igl/senti/flex) - $2
I am confident he can call at a t1 level, he has a good, flexible agent pool and his shooting will not hold the team back.

Skuba (smokes) - $2
We all know he's really good on the smokes, will do his job and more.

N4rrate (flex) - 4$
Its N4rrate. He can play anything and be cracked. Probably spends most of his time as a secondary init/duelist. Imagine a double duelist dive comp with him and Oxy in your face, supported/setup by Cloud Flyuh and Skuba. Insane.

R1 - Ez Clap
R2 - Ez Clap
R3 - Ez Clap
R4 - Kru loses and gets like 4-7 rounds a map
R5 - Drx loses and gets like 7-10 rounds a map
R6 - Close but 55/45 we win imo

wardell without op is c0m level, this is just Leviathan 2.0

Mostly added new players and also moved a few around

Rules

1. Don't go above $15 (obviously)
2. 5 players max

$5 players
Aspas/Texture/Less/Sacy/Alfajer/JohnQT/Boostio/Saadhak/Leo/Mako

$4 players
N4rrate/Oxy/Meteor/BenjyFishy/Forsaken/Jingg/Something/Karon/Keznit/Jawgemo/S0m/FNS/Sayf/Cryo/Zekken/Scream/Bang/Tenz

$3 Players
Yetujey/Suygetsu/Ange1/Ardiss/Verno/Zander/Nismo/Mwzera/Trent/Tex/Cloud/Riens/Caunzin/Jammpi/Foxy9/Izu/Marteen/Zyppan/Eeiu/Leaf/Zellsis/Ethan/Life/Trexx/Crashies/Victor/qw1/miniboo/JonahP/Kingg

$2 Players
Mada/Soulcas/Berlin/Reduxx/Skuba/Xeppa/Vanity/Derrek/Runi/Shyy/Moose/Havoc/Fit1nho/Tomaszy/Koalanoob/Flyuh/Carpe/Curry/V1c/Brawk/Stellar/Aproto/Will/Jakee/Corey/Net/Governor/Artzin/Purp0/Bcj/XXIF/Wippie/Monyet/Qck/Rossy/Dapr

$1 Players
Sinatraa/Zexrow/Tdawgg/Lear/Nahsie/Seven/Aleksandar/Exalt/Subroza/Noia/Mel/Geeza/Paincakes/Shahzam/Dicey/CGRS

$0.5 Players
Shanks/Mocking/Pablo/MexicanSova/IItzTimmy/Aceu/Poppin/Prod/A2Guapo/WoohooJin/Ethos/AverageJonas

Free Players
Wardell - Condition: No Scoped Weapons
Enzo - Condition: No Odin or Ares
Dephh - Condition: Will be on your roster
Xms - Xms

Challenge
How would your roster do vs the following
R1 - Untameable Beasts
R2 - '22 G2 Gozen
R3 - Current TSM
R4 - '23 LCQ/Champs KRU
R5 - '23 Champs DRX
R6 - Madrid GENG

11-2

Real Solution
Core: FNS and Som

Initiator Options:
#1. Import Cloud
#2. Verno
#3. Keep Crashies
#4. Brawk

Duelist Options:
#1. Oxy
#2. Jawgemo
#3. Reduxx

Flex Options (secondary duelist/ flash init basically)
#1. Bring N4rrate back home
#2. Keep Ethan
#3. Keep Victor
#4. Nismo

Nats has won 1 international match since losing to Acend in 2021. His prime was when Hiko played the game. And we have him and 7 other people above Less.

Edit: ignore this comment i was wrong

potential to make it out of the first round of premier playoffs