I dont think anyone including the coaches want to see furia players play

Imagine how much furia worse furia gets if they already spend nearly 2 months not playing just to get 13-0'd

also saying that with a PRX flair is crazy

I agree, with pretty much all of this, but to quickly touch on your last point. I also love this type of content but I think it brings more unnecessary stress to all of the current t1 players, had this just been released like after champs or whatever so that the hate could die down and this lets the coach and players focus on the esport game rather than their PR game

im not here to stop haters, you can dislike or hate anyone with any reason you want. I just want to discuss the absurdity of the situation

Youve completely and I mean completely missed the point

SEN dont have a better average than EDG and a team that goes winless shouldnt come close to be considered the best, consistently not the best makes you not the best

no one there is trash talking. trash talking is non constructive and usually has no point but personal entertainment or to get ppl mad.

like I said in my post, what everyone is doing on that team is trying to win and give solutions to the problems they think there is. Which happens to basically every sport team, there is not 1 good sport team out there where players have not yelled at each other for mistakes done.

You are completely right, they shouldnt be doing it during the game at all and its fault of autumn for not controlling the team environment. What I really wanted to point out was that actual moments themselves werent even close to bad and just the average for most teams especially the good ones

if a player doesnt like the role, they should be the one saying it, just like how sayf in previous years would request not playing duelist. If meteor played it, its because he agreed to. you can see multiple times in the t1 documentary where the team agreed to change comps and meteor directly say that he didnt like the agent he was playing, and guess what they changed the comp.

The second part I agree with

he must be a ragebait account, i refuse to believe someone genuinely believes "he cant shoot, he must be replaced" type of thought process

who is overrating nova bro xd my team is in the dumpsters rn

anyways love my goat guang, he will be a top chinese prospect in the the coming years trust

the guy who said that sounds very smart and handsome probably 6ft tall with 5 lambo's and donates millions to charity in his free time

what gamble nats said is correct

wdym by live chat? like vlr? the yt streams?

I love the transparency as fan, I 100% agree, I think as a player I would be fustrated that a video like this got aired

What you say doesnt really make sense, this is not an issue of trying. this is an issue of emotions, pressure and wanting to win.

they were underperforming during stage

this doesnt matter, buzz could be 40-1 every game and flaming still isnt okay. Its about having problems when you put expectations on yourself as a flawless team, if you win a trophy every loss after hurts because you are meant to be "the best team" Buzz isnt flaming anyone because he thinks he is a god and everyone is trash.

He is flaming people because he is frustrated and feels like he knows what changes are needed to fix the team up, it doesnt matter if he was 0-15, 16-16 or 50-12, at the end of the day he is trying to win, not feel like the best player in the lobby.

and also what I hate about autumn is his retarded experimenting, meteor, a sentinel main, is playing a fucking scan initiator (Tejo) at one point

This is a decision that meteor mustve agreed with, I dont like it but many times T1 outright say they dont like their comps, so they change it, if autumn kept sticking to the same things and didnt experiment that would be idiotic because all his players are asking him to go out and experiment. Every team that thinks comps are the issue try this btw, think of kangkang Kay/o. they are literally throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks

he's also immature, keep in mind THIS IS A MASTERS WINNING COACH.

Yes, as a masters winning coach he should do much better, but people are being too harsh on him when you barely know the guy. Like asking for his termination from valorant and not given a chance in tier 1 is a stupid thing to say. but overall I agree autumn should be better

pretty much anyone who cares about t1 or their players

You are right, the fact its happening during the game and not half times or after is crazy and needs to be called out by autumn. and its a huge failure on his part not being able to keep the team environment clean during the game.

The only problem is that as a player this may seem discouraging as im sure I wouldnt want this to be shown, with huge amount of hate coming from fans.

I as a fan love the transparency, but like imagine your buzz where your entire feed is filled with hate for you and orgs will now need to think twice of their pr before picking you up

also quite glad that you agree with me

Majority of the time the blame does make sense and is critical. I gave two examples in my post, but I fully agree blaming during a game should be unacceptable and autumn the coach shouldve called it out. but what im mainly focusing is the moments themselves which actually arent that bad from the player perspective.

But yes you and the others make a solid point that it happening during the game is ridiculas and should be handled better

TL lol team was not that bad

The coach actually did, when buzz was blaming sylvan for the rafters thing, autumn says "its just that guy whiffed his shot (izu)" and after the game he says sylvan made no gameplay mistakes he just struggled to aim. Which is very fair to say

could and should do autumn do better as a coach to foster a better and more healthy environment for the team, absolutely, should autumn immediately stop all flaming that happening on stage absolutely but I dont think its fair to say he didnt do anything.

I think being critcal of it is fine, especially of that which is totally valid to complain about. but it makes no sense in my opinion to completely change your view just because of this documentary when its a common thing that happens in esport

hence esport is not an average job, it falls much more into athlete, and i promise you this happens in professional sport all the time

if its too much just dont read it :pray:, no one is forcing u

thats very fair, hence I left a tldr. I just wanted to complete my thought as well for anyone who disagrees

the writing probably isnt very coherent or make total sense. I just typed and didnt look over it

TLDR: The documentary isnt that bad and happens to a lot of teams especially to teams who win then lose right after due to clashes of ego, confidence and everyone wanting to fix the issue because they feel they need to be perfect.

This is probably one of the hottest take out there because everyone and I mean everyone ive talked to collectively agrees that it is awful.

From my perspective the T1 documentary is just about the most realistic thing ive seen, as a person who has been in a competitive team environment for many years, the flaming, the overtalking, the lack of accountablity makes total sense. The only difference is T1 decided to show it.

Expectations
A team like t1 when getting formed was projected to be a korean superteam, many people thought they would go on to win events, this includes the players, every player in that squad knows that they are good, but the lack of results causes a ton of tension, when it gets to that degree, people will start blaming and getting mad at each other, it happens in a majority of teams, I promise you not a single team in the entirety of VCT in tier 1 history has ever not conversed like buzz or autumn. A lot of it comes from fustration at the lack of results this is especially true if your a player like buzz who has had multiple years of success and proven himself as a player, when things go wrong its not wild to think he would get upset, and voice his opinion to try and win.

Now I can already hear the replies saying "just because he is upset doesnt give him the right to flame or scapegoat slyvan" and you would be absolutely correct, Buzz is not in the right for flaming, but its bound to happen, thats just a consequence to losing, buzz feels like he knows how to fix an issue that happened and so he voiced it. "just because you were told not to do that smoke doesnt mean to NEVER do that smoke" this is a super valid complaint on its own, its just the delivery done that is poor.

Everyone except like izu pretty much then starts to give solutions to problems they have, whether it be comp changes, whether it be how they play, whether it be how they prep, whether it be how they comm etc etc and what happens is someone else will think thats not problem and thats where the tension gets super high. Its obvious that people like stax or buzz are in the wrong, im not a white knight here to protect them, but what im saying is, that people will just say shit when they get mad and feel things need to be fixed and that this isnt them. What they are doing is very realistic and happens to a lot a lot of teams, maybe not to the exact degree but especially good teams, will suffer the same problems. Nothing a coach or player said is completely unreasonable, they all make sense individually but seem poor due to delivery.

The documentary that t1 made is meant to capture the intense moment the team has had. For all we know right after buzz apologised after the fact but it will never be shown because the camera doesnt capture it all. You should never judge a player, coach or staff unless you know the full story which is something a singular documentary will never show, especially if it shows peoples worse moments when they get caught up in high intense moments of emotion. Everyone at one point or another will have breakdowns that make 0 sense to an outsider. I think people blaming autumn for his strats and stuff and I think thats dumb, of course they wont show that, all voice comm videos are limited, cut and edited, just because t1 one showed more, doesnt mean it shows it all.

There is much worse out there, there is much worse said in other esports, or sports in general. its not something healthy, you would be correct in saying having none of it would be better, but it happens and this isnt anything new, people just wont show it to you because no one wants other people to see them at their worst only this "propaganda" esc where it shows people at their best.

Honestly when I heard ppl talking shit, I thought it would be really bad but for a team that won then lost very quickly after everything shown makes complete sense, and I wouldnt be suprised if it was worse but never shown.

The only people im dissapointed in or I guess suprised by is the org t1 for allowing this to be shown because yes it happens a lot but it should never be public, like drama and stuff.

being against america is so fucking free

I think its time to face the fact they have the weakest average among the regions and even their best team (g2) hasnt shown much recently

thats literally your only argument that kangkang did bad at shanghai????????? do you even know what you wrote

magnum unironically one of their better players

you doing individual duels as who is better ? LOL thats even worse than which team won

he can play 8, and overall he is a better player

nah

the thing is, forsaken doesnt have 20+ agents in his pool, he is like good at like 10 of those agents max, which is still mad impressive dont get me wrong, but he isnt a better player than chron

well one of the guys were -30

I agree with that, but it doesnt really change my point

He is like a top 10 player, not 1

Fnatic

and forsaken fans call him a goat contender and a better flex than chronicle

like Im happy over PRX winning, good on them for finally doing it but the fanboys are so not serious

bro the entire team was ass at Shanghai you don't have to be a genius to see that a 9-26 loss to heretics and a 17-26 loss to PRX is a pretty bad performance.

Talk about the player ❌
Talk about the team result ✅

tapped in the brain some people are

10/10 for effort

0/8 bait tho

a guy on vlr, wtf u want me to say

Do you ever make a good take?

it should be aspas XD kekw

this episode is goated, we dont need another platchat, we need more personality

this episode shows that

I suddenly believe in PRX, TRAINNNNNN HERE IT COMESSS

his status is chinese tho

get eyes pls

meteor was

meteor didnt even make it out of groups, why are you yapping about an irrelevant player, Chichoo played more than double the rounds btw and had a higher rating than meteor.

smoggy was the best fragging smokes, but it's not like there are many smokes players that focus on fragging (util hungry).

Point out specific times where smoggy was not sufficiently using his util for his team and instead saves it for himself to perform

nobody wasn't the best igl, i think mako and boo had better ideas throughout the tournament

you are lost then, mako igling has been a problem a DRX because its just not that good, he isnt even top 3 igls in ideas, his calling is mediocre what makes him so good is being able to perform at a top level and still give acceptable calls. And for boo, this is a solid argument, Boo was a great caller in the champs, but nobody completely outcalled boo in grandfinals, every map except haven, nobody had better midrounds, fakes, and ideas. But this is your first take that isnt completely braindead.

again, these players are all still around. nothings changed, apart from s1mon leaving. they went from champs, 3rd to failing to qualify from the weakest region. fnc replaced leo with hiro and still did well, edg went from top 3 in the world to looking completely lost.

they were completely lost even with s1mon back vs t1 in the bangkok playoffs. EDG have not looked good a single time after the groupstage, they only had individuals peaking (mainly chichoo) and once that fell off, EDG fell off. EDG did nothing impressive with or without s1mon in the chinese groupstage. You couldve brought anyone in for s1mon and EDG would have failed.
Completely different situation with fnatic and hiro, Fnatic still had good ideas, and how to play the game.

kk is an extremely selfish duelist. there's nothing wrong with it, it's a fine playstyle, creates space for your team yada yada. it works and it's really fun to watch. that said, he needs immense util cover from his supports for his style to work. aspas you can just plonk on jett and he'll find you entries even if his team is afk. kk relies on his supports far, far more than any other duelist player. again, nothing wrong with it - it's a really effective style if you assume you have the support behind you. that's a big if.

This is completely wrong, Aspas is a selfish duelist who only supports himself and allows himself to perform, he is using his utility self suffiecently and not for the team, that is what a selfish duelist is. Zmjjkk is the complete opposite, he uses his utility only for the team, creating space and sending yourself in taking the most first duels is the most selfless thing a duelist can do. Im sorry to say you dont understand the game. This is no hate to Aspas btw, him being selfish is what makes him such an excellent fragger and why people put this guy as the goat.

there's an intrinsic, fundamental tradeoff between how much you shoot and how much util you use. if you're shooting someone, it means you aren't piling util on them and letting your teammates shoot them. smoggy, chichoo, kk all love shooting people.

Everybody on the team should "love shooting" except your igl and flex. This is true for all teams and what makes a successful roster, if s1mon couldnt fufill that role, he wouldnt be on the team, him doing his job is not something that should be glazed. No one calls molsi the best player of apeks, no one calls sacy the best player of sen, no one calls kicks the best player of vitality, no once calls lakia the best player of geng, no one calls you the best player of xlg. Because these are players simply doing their role, are they good at their role? yes, but they should be good, thats how building a winning roster works.

nobody's util was also fine, he is a good pos4 player, but nothing specifically impressed me more than other top tier pos4 players.

you didnt think nobodys utility that single handely faked over all 5 people to the wrong site was impressive??

s1mon was a monstrous pos5, singlehandedly making up for the util deficiency that the other 3 shooters on his team inevitably creates.

There was no util deficiency, s1mon just fufilled the role of a flash intiator, who have a lot of utility to throw. You wanna know real util defiecency? look at FPX AYYYY, look at WOL Lysoar, Look at TL Kamyk. Those are players who have bad utility or dont use utility for the team causing actual util defiecency. Just because someone can shoot doesnt mean their util deficient

like just look at fnc for instance. kaajak is a pretty selfish duelist, but not as much as kk i'd say.

As I said this is wrong, players like whzy, kaajak, juicy, jinggg, t3xture, miniboo, zmjjkk are all non selfish players.

boaster provides waaaaaaay more util than smoggy, and chronicle provides a bit more util than nobody. that makes crashies's life a hell of a lot easier than s1mon's.

provide specific examples, where does this happen. what utility is boaster using way more than smoggy? boaster btw had a way lower APR than smoggy overall. chronicle had barely higher than nobody in APR. so what evidence do you have for this? is boaster averaging more smokes???

i also think people overstate him being "emotional" or whatnot.

he is literally crying over doing bad vs lev, he is choking big moments with huge whiffs, he actively talks about being nervous, his fragging overall went down as the tournament progressed, many times s1mon is asking what should he do, or saying that he just cant do anything. Him making a big play doesnt take away from that. There was also way more impactful rounds that are equal or even better than that.

he's a rookie, and it was his first ever international tournament, and he gets insane hate for having bad-looking stats, and consequently gets scapegoated everytime edg loses, despite him probably being the best player on the team.

You are making excuses, yes he is a rookie, but there are plenty of rookies who dont have the same problem, he is also definitely not close to the best player on the team. he is the worst player on that squad. That doesnt mean he is bad, it means he is on a team of superstars.

everyone whiffs on fully-flashed people from time to time. s1mon can shoot really well, his clutch rate was among the highest in the tournament.

he did it the most consistently, and as one of the last players to enter on the site, he is expected to have a high clutchrate, along with nobody, this is true for all flex and intiator players except some specific cases.

he just doesn't get a chance to take the good fights, you can't kill people while piling your util on them.

This didnt stop any other flex in any other world winning team, can you name any other player that has won trophy and then immediatly be at the bottom of the leaderboard for nearly all stats REGIONALLY. Not sacy, Not Lakia, Not anyone I can think of

unironically, i think he knew he was getting benched in that last game vs nova, and just said fuck it i'm playing for myself this game and ended up top fragging.

If you watched that game, you can clearly tell that didnt happen. He still through flashes for his team, it was his same normal gameplay except he was shooting, and the rest of EDG were sleeping.