Swimtrek blue discussions

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#1
Cheasle2
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I feel like this gamechangers drama comes up every year but I'm just going to give you some stats.
of the last 3 game changers championships, the winners, and runners-up have consisted of:

2025:
8x cis women
1x trans woman
1x non-binary (AFAB)

2024
6x cis women
2x trans women
1x non-binary (AFAB)
1x non-binary (AMAB)

2023:
8x cis women
1x trans woman
1x non-binary (AFAB)

lets now ask ourselves how many women have competed in VCT tier 1? how many non-binary people have competed in VCT tier 1?
as of now, there has been a single game changers eligible player who has been signed to a tier 1 team, and she only played 7 games.
and what about tier 2? how many game changers eligible players have won challengers? ascension?

a lot of people seem to be angry, or upset at Swimtrek blue's recent success, and I ask you why? why are you angry? are you angry at trans and non-binary players competing? or are you mad that they're doing well? Does it change something that there isn't a cis woman on their team? I ask because I've seen many people saying things like "normally it's fine, but this is shameless" or "they're faking it".

Signing up for GC is not an easy process, and it's not something you can just decide to do one day on a whim. Until trans women and non-binary people get the same opportunities as cis men, they are marginalised genders and are welcome in game changers. If you have a problem with that, you probably aren't watching anyway!

peace out!

#2
Naur
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i dont know whats going on but keiko is the goat and this thread checks out to me

#3
HOSPITALPATIENCE
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editing not tryna get politics baited

#6
Naur
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i have a question not trying to be hyper political or whatever, this is genuine curiosity. I know game changers is a space aimed at marginalised genders which is great, but is there no argument to be said that perhaps some players (im not pointing fingers i dont know much about swimtrek) could be faking it or using it as an entry? Is that even a realistic posibility / concern or is it just from people not watching it guessing

#13
HOSPITALPATIENCE
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yeah i mean maybe, you have to get verified by radiant to play in gc na though which requires social media (2 years or older) or id proof to prove your identity. but i don't think you can have "nonbinary" on your ID so like, how does that work?

I checked one of the profiles of a different swimtrek player (not the one in my og comment), they were nonbinary and they called themselves femboy zekken, femboy dambi, and posted straight thigh pictures with those amazon leggings. whatever, not for me to care.

#14
Naur
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fair enough! at the end of the day i think most of the upset people over this stuff dont even actually care about the teams in gc anyway, complaining to complain.

#15
HOSPITALPATIENCE
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SicK is moaning abt it ofc its complaining to complain

#31
ZekeNotGio
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There is probably some low tier GC players that are faking but there is not anyone in these higher level events that are "faking". People do not want to play with someone who is lying as well as people have gotten their verification revoked if there is ever evidence of them lying about their identity and we have seen cases of this in NA

#4
SIXSEVEN67
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Grok summarize this under 200 words

#8
trentglazer
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alr imma explain it like you're 5
people no like they-thems
people think tournament for they-thems and women only tournament for women
when they-thems win tournament for first time finally beating women team
people big mad

#9
SIXSEVEN67
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Well this just concludes women are bad at valorant, why is people making a big fuss

#5
wintery
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who was the AMAB? was it srN?
also i agree <3

#10
BabyWizard
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Yep srn🦍🗣

#11
SIXSEVEN67
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Wait why are you calling Srn a gorilla, that's kinda mean

#12
wintery
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i see :3

#7
Galactc
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Gc drama is just people pretending to care like they haven't been ignoring gc all year just to invalidate the achievements of one marginalised group which goes entirely against the point of gc

#18
Cheasle2
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precisely.

#16
Pomshies
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sarah is a trans woman

#17
Cheasle2
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I thought she was AFAB am I mistaken?

#19
Pomshies
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she referred to herself as a trans woman in this tweet so im pretty sure that means she’s amab
https://x.com/sarah_frags/status/1969110172447752235

also flor said sarah isn’t afab or transmasc in this comment
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/187rv1u/comment/kbhppn4/?context=3

#21
Cheasle2
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Wow my bad! She passes really well

#20
foythvlr
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Hello, i am a GC watcher and i constantly defend GC on these very same forums. I agree with some of your points and think the panic on trans people is way overblown. However, i am concerned with some things i been seeing on the scene for quite a while now. These are not solely about Swimtrek Blue, but about something that already happened on nearly all four regions through america. I also do not mean disrespect at all in any of the comments below and do not intend to offend anyone.

I understand GC as not being as easy to access as people think but i have some doubts about the process of identity. I do not perceive gender as neccessarily something you need to perform, or you need to have dysphoria, or anything like that. But i do think there's a social aspect specifically on gaming, the game changers objective, and the feminine-perceiving players that we need to discuss here. There are AMAB players who are very male presenting, still use male names, are in "straight" relationships, use "he" pronouns, and the only "proof" of being non-binary is using a different pronoun as a alternative. I am not questioning their gender here, i have no business telling anyone how they should express themselves, but i am questioning how much they challenge their own assigned gender enough to really belong on game changers. And i am not targeting players like Jelly, srN, or Florescent here, but ENBYs who specifically seem to be very male presenting.

Thats because i perceive GC as a very feminine-adjacent scene. To me, the whole point of the scene is that competitive video games have forever been a very ultra-masculine thing, which makes a hostile environment for women and/or every feminine-performatic person, shrinking the player base and consequentially making it a very tiny player pool on e-sports and a even tinier good enough player pool on e-sports to be between the highest level. GC comes as a space to let this player pool naturally evolve without the hostile environment mentioned.

So what really bothers me is: when we have AMAB ENBY players who are still really male presenting, consequentially being perceived as male by broader society, and don't really seem to have a problem with that, at which point did they went through the same hostile environments that feminine-presenting players have, at which point they really need game changers to grow and not normal mixed tournaments, at which point do they start to take advantage (even in a non-intentional way) of players who are still on the process and their dedicated prize pool, and at which point they start hurting the scene? Are they not getting chances on the mixed scene because they didn't have the opportunity to evolve on the mixed scene, or because they did have the opportunity but managed not to evolve? Because to me when you are very male-presenting on a very feminine-presenting space to the point people will start discussing it, the GC target audience will start to not feel very safe too, and i know players sometimes have their own feelings about it too. This might be good or bad depending on how you see it, but i do think there's some bad angles to it.

And as for Riot ID process, i really have my doubts considering the Malibu/Noot Noot incident a few years back, but i do not know well how that ended up

#22
dxddycharlie
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Grok summarise this in Valorant terms

#23
foythvlr
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Hi grok here! Aspas is the goat

#25
dxddycharlie
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At what time does 0sp0s play in Masters London?

#28
catNmouse
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Same time as FNATIC and DRX

#30
dxddycharlie
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:(

#24
dxddycharlie
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"GC is supposed to be like a protected Haven C-site for feminine players getting spawn-peeked by toxicity on the main ladder. Some players are basically walking in with a full male default skin + male voice line pack and still claiming the safe site. You’re asking if that’s fair to the players who actually needed the protection to climb."

#26
foythvlr
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Not reading allat sorry

#27
dxddycharlie
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the irony

#29
ZekeNotGio
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Just because the players don't outwardly make statements doesn't mean the comments that are sent dont bother them. The random people hating on them is not even seen most of the time and its so expected when they do well that they have to ignore everything or all the absolutely vile and disgusting things said would make them never want to play again. SR has been playing T3 and T2 and finding success but we don't say they are taking prize pool and opportunities even though they are good enough to not play GC any more in theory. I have never heard a good player in the NA GC scene ever complain about NB or trans players because when you are actually in the scene you now how bad discrimination can be in trials.

#32
foythvlr
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The thing is, as male-presented ENBYS in a extreme masculine environment, before the tournament and their entrance on game changers, did they ever get actually hated on gender-related issues? That's the whole point i'm making, and i do believe it is a important one. I'm not the one to talk about what they suffered and didn't suffer, but suffering actual gender oppression =/= suffering normal competition pressure, and the whole point of GC is gender opression. However i do agree this is a thing that people should discuss in a more civil manner and people overall are just expecting the worst from the players which i think it's not fair; They should be heard too

SR has been playing T3 and T2 and finding success but we don't say they are taking prize pool and opportunities even though they are good enough to not play GC any more in theory.

Also this is a entirely different thing. First, SR have NOT been finding success in T2 at all. They are in a weird mid-tier between GC and T2 (or at least were since half the team is out now) and are evolving with the Game Changers environment, and i dearly hope they do stabilize on T2 someday, but they only won one game in three splits they played, and even their T3 stints are very inconsistent. And they always had fully female-presented players which means every player always got through the hostile environments i mentioned. They are progressing but they are not there yet at all.

I have never heard a good player in the NA GC scene ever complain about NB or trans players because when you are actually in the scene you now how bad discrimination can be in trials.

Now that's something i can understand. I always got the mindset of thinking i'm not the one who should be complaining, so if the players themselves don't speak on something, that's probably because it's not a problem. But i did see GC players sometimes expressing dissatisfaction with some things over time (Bizerra incident comes to mind, although she took that back). Since you are more integrated i can believe most don't really care about that

#33
ZekeNotGio
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You can say they present how ever you would like but you have no clue where on their own identity process they are. Just as a person changes as they grow older you grow more comfortable with how you want to present yourself. While you can say they look a certain way in a photo you have no clue how old that photo is (most are VERY old because valorant players in GC and VCL would rather do anything but take a headshot) so we dont know if they still even present similar to this moment. Most people who play this game especially at the lower end of T3 (T4 or whatever you would like to call it) would absolutely avoid having a NB player on their team especially if they enjoy using slurs that are harmful to them (very common) on top of just generic general disposition in America to anyone Non Binary as a whole. Sure once you prove yourself a bit then you start to enter the area of normal humans that ACTUALLY want to play and winning is goal number 1 and they dont care about your identity but the reality is the non notable T3 teams are extremely unprofessional.

SR has placed well enough for 2 Seasons of premier to qualify to promo relegation which is in fact being the top of T3. Their results in mfh are basically irrelevant since when it comes time to do the important things they show up better than others, you also cannot discount them winning in promo relegation to stay in being able to defend your spot more than once is the definition of belonging in T2. They likely would have defended it again if they did not lose MeL

#34
foythvlr
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I agree, every process is a process and i have no clue how each one goes. Maybe they are more femme-presenting now, maybe not, i have no business in that and i don't want to invalidate them at all. My point is if they have been suffering this before, when they were male presenting, if the photos are theoretically old. Were they not on T2 before because they were suffering prejudice, even when they were read as males? Or are they just not good enough? While i agree T3 pug teams are bullshit edgy kids that might have offended them it's hard to believe its not the latter, cause being read as males even when you are NB absolutely does reduce the gender oppression. And it's not that ENBY prejudice doesn't exist, its simply because Misogyny is way bigger of a thing. Teams like SRG and TLV (sure, not doing bad on T3) are indeed not doing great on T2, but they have the "excuse" of still evolving under the GC umbrella as female-presenting suffering oppression their whole gaming lifes. With male-presenting not facing the same issues, is their evolution being capped by their gender issues, or their own ability ceiling? And its also worth nothing some of these players have been on T2 for a while now, like k0rupt and Bob, they are on the more "professional" side of things as i would like to call it

Also, this could all be avoided if they just updated headshots lol. I do no think they should neccessarily be more female-presented, they do whatever they want and no one should define for them, but it is important to consider how society and the community perceives them and reflect on your own oppression and the oppression the game changers initiative actually is about

#35
ZekeNotGio
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Have you ever in your life played a ranked game? people will check your twitter see they/them and just absolutely treat you like a sub human its the same in other places as well

#36
foythvlr
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Have you? If you have a male-sounding voice in ranked you think you won't be treated better than a female-sounding voice? You think he/theys have it as hard as she/hers? Like i said, ENBY oppression do exist, but if you are in a ultra-male space presenting as a male, you will face way less backlash than a woman-presented person, because the overall community recognizes and rejects feminility more than the gender complexity of AMAB transmasc ENBYs. Im not powerscaling oppression, im simply saying misogyny is still a thing and is the focal point of the GC initiative, because it is the root of the gender problems in e-sports, and if you have presented as male in a male field and evolved there, then maybe you don't need Game Changers because you don't need the space to grow

#37
Shadow_Monarch
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I don't watch GC nor care about the league, but all I know is the best NB/Trans on Duelist will win you a GC Trophy, lmfao.

#38
StudentofHist0ry
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literally everyone who is worried about this is 12 years old and will grow up and realize this shit does not mater and that its good to give the LGBTQ scene inside of valorant a dedicated space for them to thrive in. literal children worried about other peoples genitals and if that makes them better at the game its insane.

#39
waseetali9
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BRO MY THOUGT PROCESS WHY SHOULD THEY GET YK VIP TREATMENT THEY SHOULD JUST BE TREATED AS THE SAME REST OF THE PEOPLE WHO GRINED RANKED AN TRY A SHOT IN TIER 2

#40
StudentofHist0ry
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No one is getting VIP treatment. how many GC players are on t2 teams? answer me that. Every t2 player has a better chance of making VCT than 99.9999999999% of current GC players. there is no special treatment.

#41
waseetali9
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the gamechangers it self is a vip treatment my guy

#42
StudentofHist0ry
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again if thats what you think, that game changers is Riot giving preference for marginalized communities, you are braindead.

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