Revive the sentinel role(and nerf viper hopefully)

#1

Throw around ideas because riot is booty cheeks at this

Obvious changes:
1) Give Vyse the flash info back and she gets her place again as the omen(style agent) of the sentinel class(a jack of all trades master of none)
2)Bring back the old Cypher trips because these new ones aren't doing anything
3) Make it harder for sentinel utility to be broken by anything that is not a gun
4) Give killjoy more range to play from. Like maybe instead of a circle you do a square area of like(just an example this can be changed) the entire area of haven C site and garage
5)Or if you dont like 4, make killjoy's nano's cover more area so killjoy can hold more overall space. Or just make Nanoswarms last longer so more stall

Or the other way
Make it so that sentinels can deploy their utilty faster. Like certain pieces (ex a killjoy alarmbot), can be deployed like how you do a jett smoke with the crosshair. Because that allows these agents to atleast somewhat aggressively take map control but the cost is the trap might be seen and instantly broken.

#2

Divine_Thunder

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give vyse back the flash info and she'll be played again.
cypher trips can be fixed too. before only they were getting destroyed by sova and raze, now that the ping is so delayed, they are useless.

#3

Artificia

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Give cypher trips back

#4

tvkxsh1

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revert vyse flash

cypher have it so that when someone enters a cage for the first time (or only the first person to enter a cage) it gives them recon idk (since i dont think they'll revert the trip recon)

#15

Luceus

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as a cypher main i feel like that would be too broken but hey im not against it

#5

delighted

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sentinel utility should not be destroyed by recon tools

#14

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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the whole point of initiator is to break sentinel util to allow for executes....

#16

delighted

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what abt this

making cypher the only meta senti is fine bc he will be op with these buffs

camera dart scans twice
camera can rotate slightly while in use
when the trapwires are triggered, it will have a 1 sec nearsight of the enemy who tripped

#17

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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god awful measures...

cypher is an info sentinel so giving these is just not the right thing.
what can be done is this:

cypher trips distorting your aim like stun.
camera not being visible until it launches it's dart.
cypher cages give u paranoia till the time ur inside them.

#18

delighted

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isn't 1 a guaranteed kill

#20

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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no i meant like how the trips were before the nerfs, instead of slowing u down they give stun u like before

#21

delighted

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I see but I feel like 3 is like a flash u can't dodge

#22

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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u can if u go out of the cage... also the cage is 5 meters so u will still have enough vision inside the cage but no sound at all.
it's more like ur relatively sage inside the cage but also not because the person can still spam u through the cage

#28

_AshBorne_

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3 is just too strong people will just through at the entrance and pop it when some one pushes and camp near it for an easy kill

#29

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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yeah i guess so. i didn't wanna make delighted sad after all he's been through so i included his idea.
i still hate him tho

#30

_AshBorne_

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quite a love and hate relationship u have.......

#32

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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there's no love... just pity and hate

#33

_AshBorne_

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i see

#19

Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one

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Honestly what id rather do is make the cam dart do the full reveal for like 2s then pause for like 1s then do again for 2s until removed instead of the still image

#23

vibemerchant_25

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Then why can every agent in the game do the same thing T-T. Raze can nade, reyna can dismiss, jett can dash through like trips don't exist anymore, same with waylay, yoru can tp, iso can use his walls to break any trip without risk and this is supposed to be the class of agents that needs help from initiators to get into site?? Most initiators can't break trips man. It makes no fucking sense anymore. It's like riot only loves duelists and sentinels are just walking ult orbs to them that put up posters on walls.

#27

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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it's not abt breaking trips.
jett can dash into a trip...raze can satchel through a trip and get caught, and reyna can only dismiss through if she kills someone...which is the whole point of the game.

the main point is fade prowlers, sova drone, tejo silos give u a better chance to execute onto a site.
as a sentinel u can pretty much play according to the round. if raze has an ultimate on bind u can always set up a kill trip on hookah so raze gets stuck on b; or u can place a high trip on short right above default so she can't satchel to backsite.
u have to learn abt the positioning to get value out of sentinel util.
u can't always be in the open spamming through them and then complain about getting rocketed.
u always have an advatantage while defending because your position and your trips position is unknown. to counter that, initiators exist.
and if ur bad at holding play for retakes.
cypher is bad right now but now as bad as people make him out to be. his purpose of stalling is still fulfilled regardless of the nerfs simply because his trips give u the time required to call for backup.

#31

vibemerchant_25

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I agree that cypher is still playable. He has insane value even if they remove all his abilities but the cam. I also know how to make cypher work no matter how much they nerf him because he's my favorite agent. But riot have really gutted the power sentinels had when holding a site. My point is not that agents shouldn't be able to bypass sentinel util but that they need to pay a price. Reyna is good in this sense since you need a kill. Raze is also fine since the nade is valuable and you are forced to commit it to breaking trips. I don't even mind yoru tps since that's a risk unless you are executing. My point is that while all these agents get more flexibility to choose where they use their util the sentinels keep getting fucked. KJ is still chained to the site she is at. Vyse can get no info. Deadlock's ult is insanely inconsistent. Veto is actually not bad and chamber is pretty good now that the trip has no limit. The issue is that we lack flexibility in the way we use our util. I still think having some buffs to the sentinel class as a whole would make the game much more interesting cause you can't just walk into site and snap the trips or worse just send a single yoru clone to delete all the trips.

#35

Good_ping_Bad_aim

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the meta as a whole revolves around minimal use of sentinels.
having a viper completely removes your need of a sentinel since viper can lurk and hold sites better than any type of sentinel will.

first thing first:
yes kj needs a buff. one of her bots, either the turret or alarmbot should have more range. not unlimited because that's the whole niche of kj. kj is a site anchor and combined with her ultimate she's got more value than any other ultimate any sentinel has.
cypher desparately needs a buff to his trips but also needs a counter nerf to his cages.
vyse flash was unwarranted, i completely agree.
deadlock doesn't really need a buff tbh. the simple "threat" of her ult being available makes most retakes uncomfortable.
u don't play deadlock for holding sites or flanks as defenders... u play her to stop defenders from retaking sites.
and vyse has more stall util so she needs a damage nerf per tick for her vines.

overall i'd say:
vyse flash info back
kj turret increased range
vyse ult rework buff
vyse vines damage per tick decrease from 10 -> 7 or 8
cypher camera invisibility buff
cage duration decrease
trips get back their stuns
deadlock is perfectly fine as she is.
veto needs a nerf to his ultimate. increase the duration taken to reach max health and remove combat stim from his ult.
veto needs a nerf to his interceptor. it shouldn't be able to nullify ultimates. it can only nullify util that is not part of an ultimate. and a counter buff to give vision through enemy smokes
and maybe buff sage's slow orb a bit. give sage back the original heal.

#6

Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one

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Im going to bump this because i want to see the sentinel class revived

#7

delighted

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they need to fix the maps that are bad for sentis

#8

Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one

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Like? Because tbh idk what are the "bad" Maps for sentinels

#9

delighted

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haven, sunset, bind, split

#10

Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one

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haven and sunset idk, bind and split i know
Split is okay for sentinels, bind is like a nightmare because there are so few locations for effective stall
Bind and Split honestly run a veto or chamber because of how important securing one lane is

#11

delighted

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this

#12

Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one

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?

#13

delighted

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the last one is the one I agree with the most

#24

vibemerchant_25

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Sunset used to cypher's best map at one point. You could hold a site without even being there because of how good the trips, cams and one ways worked together. Haven also used to be great for sentinels till they made all sentinels useless.

#25

delighted

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for me it feels like the maps evolved into long sightlines, safe clearing and util spam

#26

vibemerchant_25

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Yea fair. Long sightlines are cypher's worst enemy now that they made the cam the size of a melon with a huge christmas light on it that sounds like a creaky door every time it opens.

#34

9wntr

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harbor senti better