do ppl seriously think hes top 5 xd or top 10 even debatable ngl
like bro is NOT better than leo
bro is NOT better than chronicle
bro is NOT better than alfajer
bro is NOT better than t3xture
bro is NOT better than spring
bro is NOT better than me
bro is NOT better than leaf
bro is NOT better than chichoo
bro is NOT better than kk
bro is NOT better than trent
like bro is NOT better than leo
bro is NOT better than chronicle
bro is NOT better than alfajer
------------------------------------------------------------------------- f0rsaken is right about here
bro is NOT better than t3xture
bro is NOT better than spring
bro is NOT better than me
bro is NOT better than leaf
bro is NOT better than chichoo
bro is NOT better than kk
bro is NOT better than trent
a devil's advocate case for every player on that list
leo - had 1.2 years of actual dominance (2023-2024 regionally), the only trophies he won were on one meta, never achieved anything internationally away from fnatic and doesn't even have the best peak of all time (yay)
chronicle - won 1 trophy in a plumber era where he wasn't the best on his team, and then fell off in 2022. In 2023 he was the worst player on that team not named boaster when winning
alfa - has never played in a system that's not boasters, only had 2 years of dominance and recently came back to do good in a final where he lost
t3xture - shouldn't have to make a devil's advocate case here, he just doesn't have the longevity to match forsaken
spring - shouldn't have to make a devil's advocate case here, he just doesn't have the longevity to match forsaken
YOU - shouldn't have to make a devil's advocate case here, he just doesn't have the longevity to match forsaken
leaf - never achieved real international success outside g2 (c9 doesnt count, that team got blasted at champs), hasn't even won a trophy
kk - had one incredible run at champs where he looked like the best player in the world for 4 matches, can't match the longevity of forsaken
chichoo - had one incredible run at champs where he looked like the 2nd best player in the world for 4 matches, can't match the longevity of forsaken
trent - he was only really good for 1 regional split in 2022, in 2024-2025 he looks good but the longevity forsaken has is not matched + no trophies
again, i'm not saying i agree (putting forsaken above alfa or chron is a war crime), but if you're looking in the sense of a "greatest" of all time list, then this is the arguments i can think of
if i was a forsaken advocate (i think alfa > forsaken), my argument would be:
forsaken has played in a system with benkai, then transitioned into a system without an igl, then transitioned into a new team with monyet, then transitioned into igling all within the same team, whereas alfa has played sentinel his entire career, and has not switched in his system massively other than playing duelist in a very minimal capacity where he's not really changing how he's playing, since he's 2nd entry anyways on haven at least
Credit to Congo1 for this:
Forsaken at internationals:
0.93 berlin
1.12 rekjavik 2
0.98 Copenhagen
0.91 Istanbul
0.79 Sao paolo
0.96 Tokyo
1.01 LA
1.04 madrid
0.95 Seoul
1.12 Toronto
...This guy is not even top 15 but they put him top 4 because je is popular and likable. Absolute brainrot. Purely vibes based
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