reply to this thread asap bro -> https://www.vlr.gg/322547/chokes-trophies/?parent=3311718
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asuna yuuki come
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well yeah duh, can't really frag out internationally if you haven't been to an international and the last one you were in, your team bombed out. TenZ needs to make Shanghai imo to keep up his appearance as a top 10 player (Ive seen many people put him as a top 10 player but imo this is the only time he has been consistent on and with a team since berlin)
he's not close to top 10 all time(unless you include pre-iceland 2021 but you shouldn't do that lmao), he's not even the highest ranking all time player on his team, that being sacy.
i'll list players that are guranteed above him to prove it
(in no order)
Less
Saadhak
Sacy
Aspas
Ethan
Chronicle
Boaster
Derke
Leo
FNS
Crashies
Victor
and this is just players who have previously played for FNC/NRG/LOUD
(ALLAT Warning)
He's definitely close if not already top 10 all time. imo TenZ>Ethan and there's an argument for Tenz>crashies/Victor.
For the Tenz vs Ethan comparison both had somewhat inconsistent gaps in their career: Tenz had a good 2021, bad 2022/23, and has started 2024 with a masters win. He was also the best/second best on the team/world during the internationals he played, winning 2 masters. Ethan had a mid 2021, a bad 2022 (played for old NRG who didn't really care/weren't competitive enough) and a good 2023 but was probably the 2nd/3rd best player on the team (usually behind Demon1/jawgemo). It is a little hard to compare the two since they played different roles but I think Tenz was more important for his team's success.
TLDR: 2 masters where a player was the top/second best on the team (and also the best in the world for one of them)>1 champions win as a great support
I feel like stats matter a lot when talking about top 10 of all time (consider a top 10 list of players all time in irl sports, which one has bad stats? I can list many examples but I don't think I need to) but even without it, a finals appearance/podium finish without winning the event doesn't mean as much in my opinion. I'm not trying to downplay Ethan's career because I think he is an amazing player and has accomplished a lot but saying Tenz is not even close to top 10 all time is ridiculous.
He was also playing a lot of tier 2/tier 3 teams
Don’t get me wrong, those are great games from TenZ but his kills were not the end all be all for SEN’s victories in most of those games.
Point is that there are barely any close games vs good teams where TenZ has had life game/dropped 30.
And think about the fact that we had to deal with zekken doing the same thing
And I know he can outfrag servers. But he did more than just outfrag the server on sunset vs NRG
I disagree, while a lot of those games WERE T2, you have to keep in mind they were against T2 players and he was 24/4 while the score was usually around 13-3. That's around like 2 kills per round pretty much every time he played. I don't think the game against NRG was a life game, I honestly think it was a bad game from sacy and zellsis. I think had NRG let any maps through other than Sunset and Split they had a very big chance of winning the series, but they just looked so uncoordinated on sunset.
Imo the game vs NRG was a life game because we usually never see a performance like that vs a tier 1 team in a game of that magnitude.
And don’t forget ZEKKEN DID IT TOO
NRG just caught SEN on a bad day imo
Also most of the games you pulled up were from EONS ago
The fact is that back then it was just easier to outgun people. Nowadays since the franchising era it has become much harder to do that and you literally NEVER see games like that
I pulled up 2021-2022 cuz that was what the guy said and you said it was a rare occurrence, my b fam. I think two players dropping 30 is more a testament to how poor NRG's structure was during that game though. You don't see players dropping double 30's anymore because teams have a strong structure around their players, NRG just didn't have that yet while TenZ and Zekken were opportunistic enough to fish for kills
because they have probably the most accomplished NA players in one team and everyone was shooting besides Ethan. I think I misworded it originally, I think their structure was solid but it was malleable and it definitely wasn't adaptable against higher level teams, I think that had they played LOUD on sunset or any of the other higher level teams, they would have also lost that map.
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