I genuinely think it might be a good idea to sub in Marved for Sacy on some maps, if they're going to force him to play smokes anyways.
Marved
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yeah let's sub out the veteran that holds this team together to let someone who hasn't competed in 6 months play, perfectly justifiable because he got MVP in iceland 22' right?
Sacy adds a lot more to the team besides his physical numbers, which are probably better or around the same to those of marved if he subbed in
jawn [#3]yeah let's sub out the veteran that holds this team together to let someone who hasn't competed in 6 months play, perfectly justifiable because he got MVP in iceland 22' right?
The general consensus is to trade out Dephh for Marved
jawn [#3]yeah let's sub out the veteran that holds this team together to let someone who hasn't competed in 6 months play, perfectly justifiable because he got MVP in iceland 22' right?
well if the veteran (meant dephh not bald god) obviously doesn't belong in franchising then yeah its pretty justifiable.
might be better to bench tenz. sacy back to initiator, zekken to duelist, marved & pancada to smokes/sentinel
primal [#6]well if the veteran (meant dephh not bald god) obviously doesn't belong in franchising then yeah its pretty justifiable.
if you say sacy doesn't belong in franchising you have problems my guy
FooBar [#2]NEPOTISM EXISTS (THE COACH AND THE FISH AND CHIPS GUY)
FISH AND CHIPS IM DEEEEEEEEEEEAD
TangyBunsenBurner [#5]The general consensus is to trade out Dephh for Marved
who IGLs? let me guess, sacy because he was secondary caller, adds up
jawn [#3]yeah let's sub out the veteran that holds this team together to let someone who hasn't competed in 6 months play, perfectly justifiable because he got MVP in iceland 22' right?
Neither Sacy nor Marved MVP'd after Reykjavik, but both were crucial parts of their team in the 2022 Istanbul Final--I'm not basing this off Reykjavik. They are on the same level.
Sacy is a good player, he is a decent secondary IGL, and he can certainly play his role well but he can't put in the performance of a smokes main like marved. Sacy isn't always put on smokes in certain maps, but for the ones that he is, it's useful to put the second best smokes player in the world on the role.
Furthermore, Marved has good individual reads and understands more than anyone FNS' calls and playstyle.
TangyBunsenBurner [#5]The general consensus is to trade out Dephh for Marved
Dephh is necessary, it's stupid to sub him out for Marved, Sacy is a better option.
Nachtel [#12]Neither Sacy nor Marved MVP'd after Reykjavik, but both were crucial parts of their team in the 2022 Istanbul Final--I'm not basing this off Reykjavik. They are on the same level.
Sacy is a good player, he is a decent secondary IGL, and he can certainly play his role well but he can't put in the performance of a smokes main like marved. Sacy isn't always put on smokes in certain maps, but for the ones that he is, it's useful to put the second best smokes player in the world on the role.
Furthermore, Marved has good individual reads and understands more than anyone FNS' calls and playstyle.
that's literally NOT how it works, there is a point of diminishing returns letting everyone play their exclusive agents in an ever changing meta and unironically thinking marved can read FNS is just beyond idiotic
Ailed [#4]Sacy adds a lot more to the team besides his physical numbers, which are probably better or around the same to those of marved if he subbed in
Yes, but you have to take into account the nature of their contributions. People misunderstand marved to be a good smokes main just because of his aim and his ability to get kills, but that's not what he's special for. If you want high-fragging smokes, just get Bang, but Marved has amazing map-reading skills and is capable of getting timings, lurks, and take crucial picks for his team.
Because of this playstyle, he ends up being the last one alive more often than his teammates, but he has the aim and clutch ability to win those types of rounds, which is the only reason he's known to be a clutch player to begin with.
For maps where he isn't playing smokes, Sacy is wonderful for his info-gathering ability and his macro perspective on the game, but you can't put him on the same level on agents like Omen or Brim as marved.
jawn [#15]that's literally NOT how it works, there is a point of diminishing returns letting everyone play their exclusive agents in an ever changing meta and unironically thinking marved can read FNS is just beyond idiotic
You've clearly never seen Marved play beyond his highlight clips. His talent lies in being able to lurk, catch timings, and get crucial picks for his team. The only reason people know him to be a clutch player is because this playstyle ends up leaving him as the last one alive more often than his teammates.
I'm not saying Marved can out-IGL FNS, but his map awareness is unmatched by anyone.
Sacy understands macro, he excels at setting up teammates and being a secondary fragger. Lurks aren't his forte, and you could clearly see that on lotus. He's just following what he's been told to do more often than not because he's not fully comfortable on the role. He doesn't adjust his gameplan based on information that Marved or Pancada would've picked up on instantly.
You seem to see flexibility in a player as interchangeable between all agents, but while it's easy for Sacy to switch onto other initiators or even potentially duelist, smokes requires a fundamentally different playstyle that he just isn't comfortable with.
It's not about people playing their exclusive agents, it's about maximizing the strengths of each individual player for the benefit of the team.
You're a fucking moron if you think that Sacy is just overall a better player to the point that he can play smokes better than Marved.
They're equal, but in different roles, and no that does not just mean agents.
Nachtel [#17]You've clearly never seen Marved play beyond his highlight clips. His talent lies in being able to lurk, catch timings, and get crucial picks for his team. The only reason people know him to be a clutch player is because this playstyle ends up leaving him as the last one alive more often than his teammates.
I'm not saying Marved can out-IGL FNS, but his map awareness is unmatched by anyone.
Sacy understands macro, he excels at setting up teammates and being a secondary fragger. Lurks aren't his forte, and you could clearly see that on lotus. He's just following what he's been told to do more often than not because he's not fully comfortable on the role. He doesn't adjust his gameplan based on information that Marved or Pancada would've picked up on instantly.
You seem to see flexibility in a player as interchangeable between all agents, but while it's easy for Sacy to switch onto other initiators or even potentially duelist, smokes requires a fundamentally different playstyle that he just isn't comfortable with.
It's not about people playing their exclusive agents, it's about maximizing the strengths of each individual player for the benefit of the team.
You're a fucking moron if you think that Sacy is just overall a better player to the point that he can play smokes better than Marved.
They're equal, but in different roles, and no that does not just mean agents.
I read allat but sometimes brevity is key, my friend
FooBar [#18]I read allat but sometimes brevity is key, my friend
When people strawman the shit you say online all the time, you have to explain everything in a detailed manner so they can't make assumptions.
Nachtel [#17]You've clearly never seen Marved play beyond his highlight clips. His talent lies in being able to lurk, catch timings, and get crucial picks for his team. The only reason people know him to be a clutch player is because this playstyle ends up leaving him as the last one alive more often than his teammates.
I'm not saying Marved can out-IGL FNS, but his map awareness is unmatched by anyone.
Sacy understands macro, he excels at setting up teammates and being a secondary fragger. Lurks aren't his forte, and you could clearly see that on lotus. He's just following what he's been told to do more often than not because he's not fully comfortable on the role. He doesn't adjust his gameplan based on information that Marved or Pancada would've picked up on instantly.
You seem to see flexibility in a player as interchangeable between all agents, but while it's easy for Sacy to switch onto other initiators or even potentially duelist, smokes requires a fundamentally different playstyle that he just isn't comfortable with.
It's not about people playing their exclusive agents, it's about maximizing the strengths of each individual player for the benefit of the team.
You're a fucking moron if you think that Sacy is just overall a better player to the point that he can play smokes better than Marved.
They're equal, but in different roles, and no that does not just mean agents.
Sentinels literally have a controller on that level with those exact talents, getting rid of the veteran player that bridges the communication gap between the players to put in an exact clone of a player they already have is beyond braindead, it would be way more logical to just put pancada on smokes
jawn [#20]Sentinels literally have a controller on that level with those exact talents, getting rid of the veteran player that bridges the communication gap between the players to put in an exact clone of a player they already have is beyond braindead, it would be way more logical to just put pancada on smokes
Yes, and that controller has to fill Sentinel because dephh can't play that role for shit. It's either put Marved on Sentinel or Pancada on sentinel, but the other has to be playing smokes. Putting Sacy on smokes is a waste of everyone's talent.
Nachtel [#21]Yes, and that controller has to fill Sentinel because dephh can't play that role for shit. It's either put Marved on Sentinel or Pancada on sentinel, but the other has to be playing smokes. Putting Sacy on smokes is a waste of everyone's talent.
they practiced, discussed and scrimmed for months and found these roles to be the most effective, if they sub out dephh the IGL or sacy one of the most important players in the team they become significantly worse and all they get in return is a individually gifted player, that does not do shit this is a 5v5 not 5 1v1s
jawn [#22]they practiced, discussed and scrimmed for months and found these roles to be the most effective, if they sub out dephh the IGL or sacy one of the most important players in the team they become significantly worse and all they get in return is a individually gifted player, that does not do shit this is a 5v5 not 5 1v1s
Yes, they've been scrimming for months with the 5 players they currently have, but they only just recently signed Marved as their 6th, which is not something they could've planned for. His addition to the roster infinitely changes the possibilities they have for their lineup depending on the comps they decide to use.
Nachtel [#23]Yes, they've been scrimming for months with the 5 players they currently have, but they only just recently signed Marved as their 6th, which is not something they could've planned for. His addition to the roster infinitely changes the possibilities they have for their lineup depending on the comps they decide to use.
he is literally on because sick went to jail, they have no intention of using a 6th man and then having to go through all the comm and chemistry issues all over again
jawn [#24]he is literally on because sick went to jail, they have no intention of using a 6th man and then having to go through all the comm and chemistry issues all over again
How are the circumstances of him getting signed important? The point is they have an opportunity now as a result to improve the results of their roster and they're not taking it.
I'm not saying make Marved a part of the roster full-time and drop Sacy. I'm saying sub in Marved on maps where it's applicable. Fly him out to L.A. and have him practice with the team unless SEN wants to continue being the worst org in NA.
Nachtel [#25]How are the circumstances of him getting signed important? The point is they have an opportunity now as a result to improve the results of their roster and they're not taking it.
I'm not saying make Marved a part of the roster full-time and drop Sacy. I'm saying sub in Marved on maps where it's applicable. Fly him out to L.A. and have him practice with the team unless SEN wants to continue being the worst org in NA.
so instead of scrimming and getting better as a team they should spend half that time integrating another player that will make no difference
jawn [#26]so instead of scrimming and getting better as a team they should spend half that time integrating another player that will make no difference
So you're saying keep the 5 while keeping someone who was once called the best controller in the world, arguable only second to pancada, who they took off smokes because their worst player can't play killjoy, or viper.
At least if they brought marved in for Sacy, they'd have one of the best controllers and viper players, playing the role. Instead of a sova and initiator player, play a controller that shines on lurks and gamesense.
Raevus [#27]So you're saying keep the 5 while keeping someone who was once called the best controller in the world, arguable only second to pancada, who they took off smokes because their worst player can't play killjoy, or viper.
At least if they brought marved in for Sacy, they'd have one of the best controllers and viper players, playing the role. Instead of a sova and initiator player, play a controller that shines on lurks and gamesense.
i'll say this again, it's a 5v5 not 5 1v1s
jawn [#28]i'll say this again, it's a 5v5 not 5 1v1s
Yes, it's a 5v5 not 5 1v1. Saying that means nothing to what I said. If it was 5 1v1s, you'd just get 5 superstar duellists. You completely misread my point, which it is what it is.
However, what we got was a mediocre viper performance, and an average killjoy performance out of two players who are by far superior on other roles.
A tldr and summary of my initial point is this.
1) wasted potention of three players on that roster. Sacy, Pancada, Marved
2)viper is gamesense heavy, and lurk heavy. We saw a masterclass from s0m on how to play her on icebox.
3)from an outside view it looks like they shifted their roles because of dephh not doing great on kj. Probably not true, but it looks like that.
A lil bonus aswell. Out of the 5 players, only two of them on that roster played what they've been known for. Tenz and zekken were on their roles they've played their careers. sacy and pancada, not so much. Dephh played harbor first time in an official, so his performance I dont blame as much as if he was on say astra, or kj/cypher.
Overall, it's a 5v5 game, but they didn't play to their advantage. It just looked like what old TSM did. Change roles when one is uncomfortable, and see what works. This role change honestly just looked like "fuck around and find out" from them.
jawn [#10]who IGLs? let me guess, sacy because he was secondary caller, adds up
dephh was also secondary caller on xset
@Jawn and @Natchel, what are your ranks in your region? And be honest
jawn [#26]so instead of scrimming and getting better as a team they should spend half that time integrating another player that will make no difference
@Jawn and @Natchel, what are your ranks in your region? And be honest
Shadow_Monarch [#34]@Jawn and @Natchel, what are your ranks in your region? And be honest
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What did I fucking say. This worked out even better, Marved AND Sacy on their comfort roles
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