if you're looking for some cope:

typically the team that sits longer waiting for a match actually doesn't do as well or gets off to a rocky start in bo5s

recent examples being

• trace vs edg CN 2025 kickoff
• edg vs heretics grand final map 1 heretics owned them (edg waited longer from being winners side)
• lev g2 (americas stage 2 grand final- lev won map 1 and series from loser bracket after losing winners finals TO g2)
• drx geng (apac stage 2 grand final - geng won series but drx stomped them map 1 after going losers side)

so... most of the recent bo5s/grand finals. the only exception being emea grand finals but that had a mid vitality roster tbh (relative to top teams)

also g2 have a history of choking and sen are no stranger to comebacks

yeah but nobody on live broadcast really does that it's the people on valorant media/social media (vlr, twitch, youtube, twitter, discord etc). more or less also the same answer basically every other person in this thread is giving

i'm primarily not talking about the people in live broadcast who paid to watch but the online fans. never said cheering is bad i'm not sure how that was your takeaway but i guess people see what they want

i'm not a hater but it is very easy to root for the other team when one side has very loud obnoxious fans who over-hype their players at every opportunity and shove it down everyones' throats. i like the org, i like the players, even rob himself is quite likeable but man do the sen lovers make this team hard to like as a neutral

fixed ty

drx free1ng and hyunmin for sure imo

other notable rookies

TL kamyk
Fut xeus
bbl sociable
everyone on nongshim - maybe ivy imo
dgzin was on furia a while ago i cant remember if it was during franchising or not
c9 v1c - had a bad showing at kickoff but he's good
mibr xenom
mada + verno (prefer mada tbh)
flor but man this team is bad so idk
yoman

dfm and boom have some promising rookies but i struggle to pick 1 who is the obvious favourite

dont follow CN enough to know but xlg have some good guys

the opposite really they're quite well rounded nobody really stands out as the carry. keiko is just a consistently high fragger on smokes

g2 are playing very clean valorant (imo) and they have shooters. though it is only a kickoff event so i imagine other teams will step up more in stage 1 as usual

im surprised there is no stream at all though. even if it was just no casters im sure some people would want to watch it seems a little unprofessional to cut all streams + would give fans something to watch before drx t1 starts (also people gamble on esports i guess)

regardless beyn about to cook

in their other wins he didnt go god mode (played well ofc) and the rest of the guys stepped up tho

also yeah a team's level is their level regardless of where it comes from - mechs diff, 1 player diff, better strats, better prep imo

why do people hate doombros? after navi cut him they lost like 8 maps in a row to mid teams and choked the freest qualification they could have ever dreamed of? they actually looked good the first half of last year only losing to heretics and once to bbl. they beat like fnc and had a great record then got fucked by single elim playoffs for masters qualification where they ran into heretics

w coach

how can you have mibr in 7th and below a team they just beat? the rest of it seems fairly reasonable

cn: trace - even though they're top 2 and qualified people don't really respect them and didn't at last years champs either until they cooked. people still say CN is a 1 team region. trace are a genuinely good team they even beat lev at champs

amer: kru - everyone says they're mid and they're always underdogs but they actually do pretty well consistently. last year they were like 6-0 domestically and always good for an upset win. honourable mention mibr not just aspas and friends

emea: bbl - i know they lost to liquid so i should say liquid but man did liquid have some shockingly bad maps. really cool core for bbl and sociablee is looking clean. jampii free from liquid seems like a whole new man. GX also seemed better than expected

apac: boom - underrated team going 0-2 is a tough one to sell ngl but they made those series close and competitive vs some of apac's better and more confident rosters. they wont be qualifying for any masters this year (imo) but i'd be surprised if they didnt give us some banger series vs top teams during the regular season and maybe finish around the middle of apac. HM: dfm and maybe talon since everyone says talon suck but they dont

if i had to choose 1 from every team i'd probably say trace then kru tbh

at this point i dont think changing coach by itself will even do much. they have an identity of hyper aggression and over-pushing and fighting everything. they need a real IGL who can actually implement whatever a coach says whether it's alecks or someone new. they need some discipline and to get back to having real set plays like they used to. i feel like just getting a new coach isnt gonna be enough to fix their terrible habits when theyve spent years with more or less the same people nurturing the same behaviours over and over

unless the coach is that dude from trace he could pull it off alone

prx
nrg
fnc
wolves

wolves were only good in the off season and it was an off season with EDG going full meme and many teams having roster changes. they never looked amazing just did well in meme cups 3/10 disappointment

fnc have looked very mid for a while just winning from better individual players + emea is not a very deep region. some great teams but many dog teams lets be real 6/10

nrg have unc igl but with all the off season hype and everyone saying verno was him they really looked bad. definite disappointment so far. great individual talent squandered all around 8/10

prx for all their chokes they have always done very well domestically so this is a huge L. while everyone else gets better and the overall level of valorant goes up they just keep everything the same again and again. i do expect them to bounce back in split 1 tbh but crashing out domestically for the first time this badly is a terrible look 9/10

marved as IGL was pretty awful. as an individual player he clears FNS no question but as an IGL bro isnt even close. and i dont even rate FNS as a top tier IGL just he still clears tf out of IGL marved from what we saw of his IGLing

best smokes is a bit far but im glad people think the team is more than just aspas and friends. genuinely looks like a good team to me and xenom was great yesterday

even worse when the guy is on your team and he still smokes you off

regular dm is so much worse imo. in tdm some people are a bit cringe but generally i can just swing or hold long angles and get decent 50s most of the time. regular dm is just footstep simulator everyone is just headset abusing and not trying to take normal fights - holding off angles from your steps etc

tdm is easier to just turn my brain off and take fights to me even if i get cringed a few times it's w.e the ratio of good honest fights vs footstep sniffers is much more enjoyable

getting to practice more on the real maps would be great i see your point but i think there must be a reason they developed those TDM maps specifically and didnt use the existing ones. the tdm maps have a lot more open space maybe they're afraid people will play like rats and games will go too slowly on the regular maps for tdm. or maybe the spawns are too far away and there's too much running?

i like the idea i just feel riot probably already considered it and turned it down for some reason otherwise why bother making new maps just for tdm. maybe they thought new maps would bring some people back idk

just to clarify how would this mode be different from the existing team deathmatch? you mean no guns at all or what

it's a real phrase though nothing wrong with it at all

even for the overlap of people like you who find it weird - is the word bum really that bad? let people speak the english language bro you're the one interpreting it in this way and making it strange if you think he's somehow talking about anal

Map 2 went so long I honestly don't know if you sent this before the series started or just before map 2 started. fire

Most of peoples' praises go to good fraggers/aimers and sometimes IGLs. Great general util that sets up the duelist is rarely praised even if it's consistently very very good (even for a pro level). It's much harder to see that and also just far less interesting from most fans POV. If aspas gets a 3k but 2 were blind we all call him the goat and nobody says a word about the flash or the call or the molly that trapped them

It's just the way these games go and really every team game including real sports tbh. Meteor got praise because he fragged like an absolute madman and was easily a top 3 player itw before they got grouped at champs. Karon was a rookie who clutched and fragged and happened to be on a team that went from mid to S tier so he got a lot of shine (rightfully so)

In fairness tho duelists also get the most shit when they don't frag out or get first blood diffed or something so there's a give and take ig

i sure hope not

g2 have won 1 series so far in kickoff. 1 match and it was vs c9 who are already eliminated

prx going into shanghai had a huge win streak of matches including wins over drx, gen.g and t1

i like g2 and i think they're great but people need to calm down and let them play first...

based on what i've seen last year in tier 2 (NA and emea) some of the matches only get streamed by 3rd parties. When they have 2 matches going on and one isnt on their "main stream" they just let some content creator/org of the team playing stream it and don't publicly release the raw stream anywhere

yeah true fns going back to playing was a big hit. was sinatra ever a regular watchpartier last year? idk tbh

ah nice i'll check him out if i see him on

compared to last year I feel like there are so few English (language) watchparties on twitch for apac. Did people like curry and others lose watchparty rights? it's only sliggy and 1-2 others like lothar what happened. i get that the overall english speaking viewership may be lower than americas or emea but still this is kinda weird. who you guys watching?

yeah true, some vandals and a few pistols (1 filler gun like bulldog/marshal maybe) then you can afford to have ~2 guys die and recover the rifles and buy up again

I'm actually quite impressed with the AI valorant analysis ngl much appreciated my guy :)

Altho slight error the FPX buy was the alternative (at the time) to the full armour spectre or similar buy. They would opt for a more greedy hybrid approach of like ~2 rifles a pistol and 2 filler slots depending on spike plant

Would very much like to see some competitive balance as you mentioned

I think the below guy has it covered ngl

Talking about pro play only ofc not ranked

Seems like since the outlaw was introduced more and more teams just get bonused and the map snowballs super hard. I don't have the numbers but just as a viewer it really seems to be getting quite common now and tbh it really makes the games worse (unless you're supporting the team I guess). People generally want to see back and forth rounds and competitive maps even if the favourite wins out in the end right? I don't see anyone talking about this so idk if it's just me being wrong or if this is actually true

Team x = won pistol
Team y = lost pistol

Y needs full shield on round 3 in case there is an outlaw in play so they cant buy sheriffs/stingers/marshals/buckys on round 2 (maybe 1)
X feels more free to be greedy on their anti-eco buy with vandal lights instead of the old school heavy shield + spectre (or similar/hybrid buy like old FPX) since they are only vs classics maybe 1 sheriff
Round 3 ends up being only slightly favoured for team Y in terms of guns -> more bonuses won

Of course it could also be that teams just want to be more greedy in general on the round 2 anti-eco buys as a natural evolution from the old fpx buy (2022) and the outlaw's existence is only a minor influence here idk. Nobody wants half the game to be decided by pistol rounds but am I the only one who feels there has been a change here?

who decided today is his prime? he is like 19 years old

The overall level of valorant has just continually improved over time so realistically it's gotta be one of the recent winners. Unless you mean taking all of those players in 2025 form and putting them back on their old rosters? If that is the case then I'd say maybe loud

If you just mean in the form that they won the trophy in then EDG. FNC GenG Sen are close tho. EDG were just incredible

compared to regular sports coaches (football, basketball etc) probably yeah kinda right tbh. the coaching role just hasn't had much time to develop it's mostly just former players who aren't good enough anymore. We've had some excellent coaches and those teams probably would not have won without them (potter, mini, etc) but overall the coaching impact in valorant is probably a lot less than pep guardiola or someone of that level

I wouldn't say frauds just not as impactful as we're used to "coaches" being just because the role hasn't been developed enough yet overall. If esports are still going strong in 20+ years I imagine it will be similar

smokes: pancada 2022
senti: meteor 2024
initiator: leo 2023
flex: shao 2022
duelist: aspas 2023 (yes over 2022)

prime yay was that guy but hard to put chamber on here now

If it's just about who is even allowed into the conversation of goat then I'd throw in tenz + sacy as well.

As much as I personally don't think he's him tenz won in 2 different eras with very different rosters on very different roles. He was absolutely him in the early valo days and proved he can still win and shoot damn well last year

Sacy won a champs then went on to win madrid in a different language while the team he left behind never won again without him. Stats-wise he doesn't always perform but clearly he has some insane impact through other things (util, probably comms, midrounding, shaping team mentality) + insane in the clutch

I would personally take aspas over both but I think they've proven enough with their multiple trophies and impact on different rosters to be in the conversation

Honourable mentions: derke, less

if you mean why are they already at lower bracket final while every other region is many games slower then it's just because they started earlier - they also did last year too. As I recall they played and knew who was going to internationals a few days before everyone else. Why did they start earlier? Maybe just for viewership which would make some sense. First valo games of the new season all CN so of course more people will watch when there's 0 other tier 1 valorant

Gonna assume this is primarily bait but I'll respond to a few bits anyway

1) Meteor wasn't flex on GenG. Idk why people keep saying this. He was senti for 90%+ of the games and occasionally played 2nd duelist on a few maps. That's it. Calling that a flex role is really a bit much

2) Saying APAC is a bad league where GenG had 0 competition then right after that saying that GenG were dropping many matches and maps doesn't make any sense. Pick a lane either they farmed (they didn't) or it was competitive where even the better teams can lose/have close matches

Not gonna bother responding to the other parts because it makes even less sense than the 2 points above which I'm sure you'll use as fuel for "no counter-arguments" feel free. Not sure why your reply is so angry my guy even ignoring the rest you're saying benjy is top 1 I'm saying he's top 3 and somehow that's enough of a difference for you to be genuinely angry

• why apeks clears every emea team

"12. APEKS - pretty much 4v5, if flor becomes great thats cool, but avolva molsi and hype is pretty much the worst core in emea"

am i missing something or is this just an average day on vlr

Meteor is a top 1 senti in the world

Benjy is likely a top 3 along with Less.

Idk why people would strongly say benjy is better but I do think they are at a similar level. I would give the edge to meteor if someone asked who is better but benjy is still up there as a top tier senti player

If heretics managed to win 3-2 instead of going 2-3 in those finals vs edg then most people would probably consider them equal. Would that be fair? Probably not it's only 1 map that made the difference but it's very easy to look back and be biased. Many non-APAC followers (and non-koreans) probably didn't see much of meteor except when he was at masters events compared to benjy - platchat guys follow emea and NA more closely so they will lean that way. If I watch 50 benjy games and 10 meteor games it's not really gonna give fair results

anyone who thinks benjy isn't a top tier senti is on crack but meteor is the best in the world imo

beyn/ardiis/cender/dantedeus/rossy

i prefer ardiis on senti/flex more than duelist tbh hes good but outclassed by the top cracked duelists. still holds up nicely on senti/flex (not sage)

beyn was one of drx's best players last year but had a bad showing at champs (wasn't the only drx guy to do so) but throughout the year he was him ngl

cender great igl took mid vitality roster to top 2 emea + champs qual

dante was a cracked af neon in americas ascension. a bit overheaty and crazy but he was insane

rossy without igl focus but still helping midround could be very helpful while putting up solid consistent numbers too

unfortunately the import rule blah blah whatever but this is my ideal 5 FAs rn. beyn/ardiis/cender/alexiik/starxo for emea +1 import

If you're talking about cases like benjy it's because players might have insider information that the general public does not have which would give them favourable bets compared to normal people.

Scrims, mutual connections, players/coaches having private conversations with trusted close friends or even just straight up asking. You can't remove all potential sources of this kind of betting but at the very least the players and anyone directly involved in esports needs to be held to a certain standard. Of course they could just ask their friends to bet for them or whatever and I'm sure it happens but for the sake of rules anyone who could potentially have non-disclosed information is restricted from betting (to the best of their ability to enforce restrictions)

Many players would probably enjoy betting just for fun and wouldn't try to rig but you have to make rules to prevent (as much as possible) abuse and unfair profits to those who may want to rig the odds. Even moreso now with riot allowing betting sponsors in valorant they want to uphold their credibility and reputation for being fair

based only on the off season games as specified:

1) G2
2) NRG
3) C9
4) FURIA
5) MIBR
6) SEN
7) 2G
8)LOUD
9) KRU
10) EG
11) Lev
12) 100T

(Posting before the final group round of MIBR/Loud/2g/The7)

Not quite sure where to put EG since they looked good but lost all the games anyway + didn't have their real 5th. C9 weird roster moves but their off season performances have been quite good. Maybe some bias with G2 in 1st given that they actually lost to C9 but I feel they've shown a lot and looked good even if some results were a bit iffy. After this Tixinha tournament ends probably one of the BR teams will move up but the tournament is still in groups rn

your last several messages contain you going after me moreso than trying to engage in the topic i was discussing. after being called out on it you've returned to the topic but i no longer have interest in debating that with you if you just resort to going after the other person instead of discussing the thing in question. perhaps expecting that is ridiculous on this site or any forum really but dont cry like this when you made it about me instead of the topic to begin with dude

you chose to engage in the argument of w hat he should have done instead of just laughing at the funny clip but then cant be bothered to engage with "people like me" even though you chose to engage with the conversation to begin with. making it about me when im only talking about the clip then victimise yourself good job bro cya im done. my fault for engaging to this extent to begin with ill cop to that im sorry

i literally asked you what you wanted him to do and responded to that... but yeah consider this a successful bait you got me. you have 0 intention of trying to understand just wanna post a haha clip which is fine but then dont defend it by elaborating on what you think he shoulda done instead which makes 0 sense. just say it's a dumb clip and move on

you want him to not take the only out he had but instead either save or grab the rifle try to win the 1v3 postplant while smoked off with 0 util and location known. if he's able to kill brim and yoru it's super winnable but with your "get 1 and get out" nonsense yeah you get your 1 good scoreboard but it's basically impossible to win wym

wtf you mean get 1 and get out it's a 1v4 and hes stuck lamps on skye. he can grab yoru's gun and save running spawn (maybe but tbh very unlikely) but at that point it's 6-12 he played the 1 low chance out to win the round and not be down 6-12. 10% chance to save a rifle vs ~2% chance to win the round and potentially only chance at a comeback. enjoy your stats king but he went for the only chance to not basically lose the map lol