tbf, it's hard to quantify impact in games on what's the coaches vs what's the IGL's

also, probably a bit of recency bias considering the massive success of PRX and EG

yeah the teams actually worked out pretty well, voted upon by you guys after all

https://www.vlr.gg/266940/all-vct-team-voting/

sadly, yay was not playing T1 so I was unable to accept the votes from the numerous optic fanboys

yeah nw, the results are up https://www.vlr.gg/268288/all-vct-teams-2023

As voted upon by vlr.gg

All-VCT 1st Team
Aspas
Leo
Mako
F0rsaken
Alfajer
Coach: Potter

All-VCT 2nd Team
Demon1
Ethan
Mindfreak
Chronicle
Boostio
Coach: alecks

All-VCT 3rd Team
Jinggg
d4v4i
s0m
Less
Boaster
Coach: mini

HM: saadhak, FNS, jawgemo, Derke, crashies, cauanzin, c0m, tuyz, victor, Chet

https://www.vlr.gg/266940/all-vct-team-voting/

literally same as Masters Tokyo little bro learn some geography

Demon1 gotta be on there somewhere right

best player on the world's best team

wow Smoggy is a really cool pick

sure no worries

I'm only going to put 5 players in each team though so only one of sentinel/igl is going to make it

get someone from Scarz highkey

Jemkin would fit the bill pretty well

you're not wrong

I bet

gotcha fair enough

ty

oh ok, apologies yeah I thought you mean for the list criteria from the outset

d4v4i meant to be IGLing right?

I guess, but a team without a IGL is ridiculous, a team without a sentinel is doable

also, the obvious answer is Alfa, and then a whole bunch of nobody

coach?

coach?

I'd prefer for you to choose either one sentinel or IGL cause they often encompass the same roles and its a team of 5, but that's fine ty

can u pick a different person for the different categories please?

I don't really want double ups for the positions, most IGLs play sentinel so it would be great if we stuck to that

please give only one :(

it makes the process easier

fair enough for most of the points, still I don't feel good putting T2 players in over so many T1 players when they were without a doubt playing against much worse competition, and in NBA terms, were "padding stats"

it's like putting NBA talent in the G-League or college, of course they are going to look better

however, the part where the NBA analogy breaks down, is even if a player is given the "keys to the team" it's harder to get individual stats on a bad team than on a good team, if a team is losing, they're losing- hardly anyone goes above 1.0 KD when they're team is getting boned

this is a democracy, so everyone write down your one vote before Champs Grand Finals for
Best Duelist
Best Initiator
Best Controller
Best Flex
Best IGL or Sentinel
Best Coach

Feel free to take into account any criteria you want, for example team results, individual stats, vibe, whatever

Please no double ups or writing multiple players for the same category, it makes it annoyingly difficult to process the data

I'll tally the numbers myself and send the results later tomorrow after GF :)

https://www.vlr.gg/268288/all-vct-teams-2023

that's fair- I understand you're prioritising team success over individual stats/performance when looking at this kind of stuff, and there's a form of implicit, and fair, recency bias behind the list (the vast majority of the people on your list are either on the top 6 teams at champs or have been long considered good players)

still though, there are some players (Nismo, trent, Buzz) even arguably cauanzin towards the bottom of the list would not be better than some of the other players I've listed if put in the same position and on the same team

for a top 20 list, I'd still argue should look more at individual ability than team success, arguably if a player is doing better on a bad team it should be worth more as it takes more to frag at the same extent when your team just can't hold sites or win duels, putting you in bad positions

important snubs:

s0m = dragged NRG over the line multiple times and arguably NRG's best player this year (crashies has been on and off recently)
zekken = just because his team wasn't performing doesn't mean he wasn't a fabulous flex
keznit = perhaps recency bias but he still was an excellent duelist this year
sayf/nats = even if they bombed out of champs doesn't mean they were not cooking, won the first game against fnatic this year, etc.
m0nyet = global esports was a dumpster fire and this gem was sadly burning in it
cryo = wasn't very consistent + op crutch, but he was helping keep 100T somewhat afloat in big games when the other "stars" weren't
F1tinho = pretty good duelist
Scream = you can clown KC and blame him for their team chemistry dumps etc. he was still good though
Cloud = bright future as initiator
Laz = pretty good

it just means the warnings mean absolutely nothing then cause those mofos have NOT been listening

what could possibly make you have so much hate in your heart

ok so basically you admitted that

1. he wasn't a good controller, but still got dropped instead of the two other people at the same role

2. was inflexible and not what the team needed despite the time he was given and

3. the team didn't improve in the months they had after rostermania and lock-in to make positive changes, when EG started winning games a match or two after the Demon1 promotion, even if they didn't get god-mod until playoffs they were still a much more competitive team

sounds like cope to me

I feel like if he played Valorant in his early 20s he would be really good

yeah and EG had the full offseason and post LOCKIN period to sort their roles and still didn't

either EG management is bugging or someone on that roster was a problem and it sure wasn't the four other dudes balling out right now in the upper finals of champs

Gravinet - make it more like a molly, as in there's a two-three second period before it pops and any player still in it gets detained

Barrier Mesh - honestly the only usable thing in her kit, maybe a 10% buff to barrier health or length so it can block some of the bigger chokepoints on the map

Sound Sensor - either completely remove it and rework like they did for Yoru, or give them 3 sensors/ability to take them back like KJ bots (having the concuss pop faster may be good too)

Ultimate - leave it as it is I guess... if you really want to buff it add some extra radius or smth

bcj was NOT a good smokes player during his time on EG and that's a fact

a good flex would be able to adapt much better than he did to combat "role issues" just like how Demon1 is picking up more controller to help his team patch up holes in their agent pool

also it's ridiculous that you attribute to the team getting remarkably better out of nowhere within weeks of Demon1 being promoted to the main roster as a stroke of random luck and not the fact that he was just a better player that improved the team around him more

I'm saying team underperforming, individually he was pretty good

just cause you're getting good stats and the team around you is crumbling doesn't mean that you're not the problem

look at how much better every guy on that team is with the Demon1 there

ok?

and you got mad at me for stating facts too earlier LOL

basically in that yay scenario

didn't manage to go into franchising with their from 2022 team

underperformed results wise on a new, worse one

now stuck scrimming in PUGS, playing in ranked and tweeting about the bad competition infrastructure

EDG are like 5-0 against bilibili
even if they don't win, BLG is a good team, at least they're actually going to make master sheesh

I would love SEN to get off their asses and do something

zombs does need a new rolex

screw LAN prize money eh?

twitter impressions about to go insane

absolutely not

oh my god i shudder to think what would happen to SEN or 100T if the guys who shit on them get shit on by another team who exit without a map in champs

saving strats for tarikxludwig invitational I bet

I love them as individuals but they couldn't even sleep Leviatán my guy 😭😭

in scrims maybe

obviously

damn I misplayed that

should've just asked where SEN was

just cause they don't care doesn't mean what I'm saying isn't true

I asked a question

who do you think I'm referring to

an overrated duelist with Russian heritage that came from T2 this year gets exposed and has their confidence shattered when the lights are too bright

W

s1mple IGL sounds like a mental breakdown from all four other players within two weeks