Do you even watch the bundesliga/europa leagues?Wirtz was one of their main reasons for leverkusens unbeaten streak recently.After watching the Qarabag FK game, i became a full believer...

Tbh int accomplishments should'nt matter cuz they both didnt bag any national trophies this year. BUT after seeing messi win it last year, i think you might be right

Yeah, if hitting the post counted as a goal

This guy deserves this years ballondor with how much impact he's had on leverkusen.Foden/Bellingham also in contention probably

thats def EMEA copium but DRX over LOUD is not

And no one predicted zeta 3rd place finish either??He's an analyst bro

Ur point still dont make sense how does DRX beating loud mean EMEA copium?

😂 😂At this point either you're just trolling or jsut debating to waste my time
How do I know if you're a verified analyst like TMV, or sideshow?
You arent proving anything most people INCLUDING THE ANALYSTS didnt predict LOUD winning

yeah Putting DRX over LOUD, definitely EMEA copium 😂 😂

your argument still doesnt stand lol, give me one source which outright predicted LOUD winning the entire thing, ive already provided you with platchat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rUxOAFyyqQ even TMV didnt even put LOUD in the grandfinals?

THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT UNDERPERFORMING MY GUY

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1haCVEMu28

2.My original point was how far ahead the NA region was so LOUD's dominance in BR region didnt mean as much as it SHOULD'VE, and you're out here picking out IDEAL draws that they're not even guaranteed to win...You give those same games to C9 or XSET (who didnt qual btw), and they'd have a higher chance of qualifying

No, masters are considered major tournaments by a majority of the fanbase...

And btw getting 4th in lock in is tougher than 4th in madrid:

Its a single elimination tournament all the way through, so theres no room for error here
You also have to get lucky with the draws and just hope you get some trash teams in your draws
In madrid, LOUD faced EDG and FPX while in LOCK in LOUD had to scrap by beating NRG(If you've watched the game, it was an IGLing master class from both sides) and a really good looking DRX to reach GF

1.Exactly my point, most of the valorant fanbase were the little timies(i.e casual viewers) they see TGRD playing so good and winning and then think that they could carry on their performance.And not just them, even DRX and PRX were also looking pretty good in regions which were more competitive than brazil.(Except korea thats also a one team region)

2.Thats not a fair comparison to do mate, this is brazil's SECOND seed we're talking about, I could say the same thing about putting C9 and XSET in GRP B while putting optic in group A

your comparing masters madrid(major) to a fucking kickoff tournament with single elim format are you crazy?
Im referring to the actual major events that make sense

sorry, i made a mistake about calling edg a tier 2 team but my point still isnt refuted. I personally do think LOUD has underperformed at least they should've been close to beating paper rex dont you think. 13-11 and 13-8 didnt seem that close to me tbh.The same goes for us losing against sen with similar scores....

My opinion really just came up after watching these games.Like in alot of the rounds they felt pretty disjointed and sometimes unaware of the opponent thats what i felt in their games in madrid.(Except the EDG game they were pretty good) I expected for them to be able to close out games cuz they've had world class players like saadhak and less....

Understand the scene of valorant back then bro.It wasnt delusion or anything whatsoever back then because most average viewers didnt know the importance of vct experience back then. But now the game has evolved much ever since, your point would definitely apply in the current stages of vct

And NA had much better competition than BR, if you really though VK/NIP would stand a chance in qualifying in NA then thats just cope lmao

Lemme ask you a question, do you really think NIP/VK would've even made it to the top top 4 in that event.NA had OpTic(they were known for beating really good teams, and losing to bad ones), and TGRD, who looked SO fucking good in the event. Even DRX, they were looking really good too...LOUD were expected to be a threat, but so was TGRD and DRX

Im saying this for like the 5th time already, 4th in madrid is not equivalent to 4th in previous events, purely because of the level of competition....And my original statement came from watching the games, cause LOUD really seemed bad especially the paper rex game.....

LOUD hasnt proved anything either.At the time brazil was just a one team region.And its LOUD's first int event they werent clear favourites or anything. Some people had their bets on TGRD, some on DRX, some others on PRX and probably fnatic if they had their full roster, and even people believed in optic because of last year(aside from the bomb out in champions gp stage cuz X10 was their kryptonite)

OpTic lost to shitty teams but also beat the best teams in NA so they already made a statement for themselves.They've already made a reputation for themselves as a team that always does their homework so you wont be able to beat them twice....

Ill give you another example to explain to you what i really meant by "underperforming"

You remember fnatic in 2022 yeah? like after they brought in alfajer and they started dominating emea??Then what happened?They choked champions and bombed out at 5/6th place while their second seed, the team that they beat 2-1 and again 3-0 in the GF, placed higher than them

Thats what i would call underperformance...

WHAT?didnt meet expectations at Reyjavik???Where their opponent was literally Prime OpTic ?Now you're misusing the phrase "didnt meet expectations"

Also that was LOUD's first ever LAN event all they've proved so far until then is that they can batter a bunch of t2 teams in brazil. OpTiC were favoured to win the event but LOUD was expected to give up a fight, and they did

Also i like how the debate has just been about my usage of the word "underperforming".I think debating any further would be a waste of time as we're literally just going in circles.....

its used in different context, usually when a team is not performing as expected, which is what i meant. It means "to do worse than EXPECTED" . A LITERAL GOOGLE SEARCH SAYS IT BRO

4th place madrid dont mean shit compared to 4th place in the previous events purely because of the competition relative to prior events

1.PRX lost because they were legit throwing rounds like ccrazy.And this same Paper rex beat LOUD.Keep in mind this is a paper rex without jinggg, their MVP last year.

2. 1-2 and 5-13 third map against GENG and 0-2 while 13-8 second map against PRX isnt close either.Sure LOUD was competitive but they lost pretty convincingly...

And this is LOUD we're talking about, with players like saadhak and Less, dont you think they'd be closing out these games more often than not?

3.Bruh i never directly called them bad, I was replying to you saying that i cannot discredit LOUD just because other teams are underperforming too.Yes they are also "underperforming", and so is LOUD.Stop making shit up bru lmao

4.In all int events LOUD occured, they had to face and beat the best teams to get to where they are.Compared to madrid, where they only won against Chinese teams.And i def think this is a clear misinterpretation, what i meant by underperforming is that they're performing relatively worse than last year, like not what we'd expect from them.Maybe thats just due to other teams getting better idk

THATS WHAT IM SAYING, IVE BEEN TRYING TO REPEAT THIS 3 TIMES. LOUD "UNDERPERFORMED" MEANING THEY ARENT PERFORMING NEAR THE LEVEL THEY WERE LAST YEAR.

I just think we should stop this argument,I feel this is a misunderstanding of what i was trying convey my guy

EDG is borderline tier 2 NA level my guy.NAVI, FUT, FNATIC, DRX, NRG would've all beat these shitters.When they played against LOUD, it was just fucking horrible, literally global esports level horrible.It makes me pissed as to why china are getting these slots for free.

LOUD's only wins are against both the chinese teams in madrid
And they proceeded to get shit on by both the pacific teams who both fell to sen.....

I never discredited LOUD's performance when i said that they're underperforming.Both Fnatic, DRX and LOUD all are underperforming

I'm sorry if you interpreted my statement as,"LOUD is a shit team, they're doing so shit right now", no they are still very good, what i meant was that LOUD's masters madrid run was an "underperformance" compared to last year or even before that.

and yeah the only wins they got on madrid are against BOTH CHINESE teams while getting shit on by both the pacific teams theres no way you can call a good performance whatsover

Mate you should'nt be talking right now im trying to explain what i meant when i said they were "underperfoming".

you dodged my main point again.Just because KC and TH qualified doesnt mean they're EMEAs best, when you had teams like NAVI maybe FUT too who could've qualified too.And TH got shit on by vitality and same thing with KC by the hands of fut.Even DRX in pacific and NRG in NA could've had the potential to qualify
Eight teams is jsut too small of a number to call a 4th place finish good imo esp with two chinese slots there

IM NOT SAYING LOUD IS BAD BUT THEY'RE NOT PLAYING LIKE THEY WERE BEFORE.THATS WHAT I MEANT BY THEIR UNDERPERFORMING

You're not even replying to my main point.The reason they came so far was because of the formatting of the tournament.Only credible win i can see is sen but you cant guage anything from a first time matchup since they got beat later. They got fuckin EG in the playoffs while NRG had to play sen......

Coming to Madrid, Two of the teams were chinese and two of the eu teams were playing from inexperience....4th place would mean more if they did it at shanghai than madrid

kickoff results dont mean shit they got doggystyled by sen later on.And they got 4th in a tournament that had only 8 teams by the way, two of which are china which are literally free wins(unless ur paper rex who likes to throw)

Again, what i meant by them underperforming was that they're not at their level anymore i dont think they'll even make top 4 in shanghai

LOUD placed 4th in a double elimination format, where winning/losing one game doesnt guarantee that ur elimination and that they get an oppurtunity to do better next time.They fumbled against GENG, and again against a "jingless" paper rex . If this was the kickoff format GenG would've won am i right??

My point still stands though, aspas would've gotten much better results probably compete with geng and sen for the trophy but sadly i dont think their in contention for championship AS OF NOW(opinions probably will change by the end of season)

underperforming is a relative term my guy.When I meant LOUD underperforming, i meant that they're still not at the level they are supposed to be rn.I doubt LOUD would be even top 5/6 in shanghai ngl

PS :LOUD already has this standard to be maintaining ever since 2022. Remember when fnatic got shit on by heretics last week and the whole fanbase went "Fnatic's finished" etc.Thats because they're expected to perform better given their last yr performance

nah, u shouldnt be using kickoffs as a metric since LOUD didnt face every other team in the season .The tournament being single elim didnt help either.....and when they finally faced NRG they got humbled.

they placed 4th out of EIGHT TEAMS lil bro, and this is fucking LOUD we're talking about.We're used to seeing them get top 3 every tournament dont act like qck wasnt a huge downgrade from aspas

ngl bleed could clear most of the chinese teams probably become top 3 in the region

bait used to be believable

nah, at least he'd do better than assdiss last yr

I dont think yay being a sentinel is a bad thing.Listen, the chamber meta has been long gone and the only type of agents that would suit the calm and precise playstyle of yay are sentinels...I simply dont get the reasoning behind putting him on raze or even SKYE for that matter his playstyle is just not suited for those agents

I think the chamber meta is the reason why yay flourished so hard in 2022 but even putting that aside, he's still a solid player.Its just that his teammates cant set him up for fights or smth like optic did

how many trophies va-china have?

poor guy has been stuck with shitty ass teammates for 1.5 years now its like he lost his family ever since gambit disbanded😭😭

thats this year...And LOUD are underperforming rn so yeah.Last year their duelist was clear mvp

their util usage is complete ass bro most of the time yays pushing out taking fights relying on his raw aim probably why he underperformed today

IMO with the kind of calm aim yay has, i think he'd be much more fit for a sentinel role than a raze

He should've joined NRG, at least he wouldve had much better teammates to play with.But hey, I'm not him so let the man do what he wants

valorant community is filled with a bunch of kids and man-children who only know how to throw hate at people for no reason.

you're just so fucking better man

will was fine but derrek , and even asuna were extremely inconsistent last year and anyway we got an upgrade to will by getting cryo. Poor bang was the only one who was putting out bangers

you also have to take into account our shitty roster back then which had frauds like derrek , will and stellar.Compared to that this roster has so much more potential.Still we made it to champs somehow

100T has always been suffering a coaching staff problem.Like our coaching staff last year was absolute dogwater even after using timeouts, they dont change up their playstyle a bit, and even the timing of their timeouts.....It has always been this way ever since sgares left.We'd be much better than we are if we still had him.....