Yeah I'm aware you don't mean a full team, but even then I think it'll be some time before we see them in ascension, I discussed something similar in a thread yesterday but I think before we fix GC we should be fixing the t2 system. If we have a good t2 system GC players and maybe even teams will naturally follow, maybe even without having to artificially promote marginalised groups through GC (this is very optimistic yes, but I think its possible within the next 4-5 years if they manage t2 correctly)

You make valid points, but I think perhaps the academy system can actually be good for org investment. Think of an org like optic, who have no interest in investing in a tier 2 roster. Now imagine an academy team comes along and wins ascension, now optic have an entry point into tier 1, I think many other orgs would be happy to invest into that kind of team as it mitigates all the financial risk from tier 2

Yeah I think it is a fundamental issue that riot wants to stay away from 'selling slots', while I can see why its advantageous I think the downsides are too great. The main issue in LoL is that the orgs hold too much power over riot, but in valorant 10/12 teams are dependant on riot, so I think if it's only 2 slots per region it's actually possible to give some leverage, as it means the t2 scene becomes more competitive

If we can have tier 1 orgs sustain academy teams, it might actually be better for the scene for there to be less orgs in t2 (many reasons like stability, guaranteed investment, less org owners waking up randomly and deciding that they dont want to do esports anymore). This would mean the entry point for some orgs becomes after ascension, instead of at the start of the season which mitigates the risk of not qualifying, meaning that perhaps orgs which wouldn't field a tier 2 team would actually end up investing in valorant.

I think we're pretty far from seeing GC players in tier 1, tier 2 I can see soon but until we see GC players in ascension I think it's not a conversation to have yet

thats a good point, they kind of screwed them selves with two different visions. In theory the academy teams and the relegation system are good individually, but if you have them both it can cause issues

really where? I was under the impression they can't qualify for ascension at all.

I think there should be demand, at least from the outside it seems val is one of the games (if not the only game) which can be sustainable long term for orgs

neilzinho said on stream that one of the main reasons they arent considering an academy team is because they can't play in ascension, and academy teams would basically just screw the players they pick up over.

I think its fine if they play in ascension, but if they win they would have to be sold to an org which could get promoted. This has the flaw of 'selling slots' but we're already destined to have another 'the guard' situation if an unfavourable org qualifies anyway

wtf

heeeees right behind me isnt he

ok this one is a bit far tbf
but comparisons are a good thing to make, it helps both games improve

yay is so back

I like vansilli as a personality but something about his casting I just don't enjoy subjectively
If I had to try and describe it its that whenever theres a hype moment he does raise his voice, but it feels like the sort of enthusiasm you would hear in a board meeting

i used to write my name as AayanZ then tenz rose to popularity and people thought i was a tenz clone

yeah im pretty much in the same situation
idk part of me is super excited to meet new people, and im not the only one in my friend group moving away so I think we'll still stay in touch

hes gotta be baiting surely thats too obvious

its da sound of da police

I think its fine either way ngl

think of it this way, ill set out an example

1. C9 buy out a cheap t2 player for a season, show he's pretty good
2. Rich CN teams come along willing to buy that player for a good amount of money
3. C9 sell the player, and with the money they just received, they buy 2 more players from tier 2 who can now be developed and given experience
4. repeat

now apply that to the overall scene and I think you sort of have a healthy ecosystem
But again as I touched on above, there's a limit to how much CN teams will pay and to the number of imports, so a team can't just become an effective academy team for china

oh I had no idea
probably not going for the russian speaking roster then unless westside can speak it
yeah its unlikely for it to fall through, but it is possible. But if it's the direction they wanna go in I'd still be down

without thinking about roles I would say

Derke (he uses the Finland flag, but he's also Russian)
Purp0
Cloud
Suygetsu
Shao/nAts/Sheydos

at least thats for talent that's already in tier 1, and someone like nAts would be difficult to pry away from liquid

I mean its a case of supply and demand, if no one buys them out they will lower the price, just as EG seemingly did at the end of 2023

honestly if it means that the orgs have more money to buyout better local players I don't see the issue
also there's a limited number of imports possible so I think its fine

bro did NOT find it

people getting cancelled for following other people now???
shit I'm finished then, I literally follow anyone famous regardless of their views

idk why the always brand it like that
like the target audience is people with 3-4 year old phones not really people with the last one.
To their credit they did compare some stuff to older models this year

real ones would use the platchat couch clip

I think the main issue with GC is that it pays way more than challengers, despite challengers being the higher league
I defo think that some of the top GC players could compete in t2, its just that instead of GC creating opportunities it's actually diminishing them if you consider the main VCT system

my top 2 for each region (except china, i havent watched china)

EMEA: APEKS, CGN
AMER: M80, TSM
PAC: DSG, RO

hmm ive seen this somewhere before
cant remember where though
oh well, good suggestion, i reckon this team could contend for 2 trophies in a year

i usually play omen

net ascension taxi here wo go

probably a nice steak

bro has to be one of the unluckiest players
hes really good but his circumstances always come back to bite him

deathmatch until im warmed up is good enough for me

my parents bought me one
i guess im an only child for a living idk

nice

truly one of the matchups of all time

china will save him, just as he saved china during champs

the yellow prime vandal
idk what phantom

yeah tbh I agree good ranking

the children yearn for the mines

bro immediately dipped to china

'not like this'

hell yeah

sort of like the one for teams but with vlr rating and maybe even other stats

ok thats actually good lol

Stage 2 2024- not a top 5 viper regionally

fair

Stage 1 2024

3rd

2024 Kickoff, Champs 2023, Masters Tokyo

small sample size (so will exclude both good and bad)

EMEA League 2023
trexx and mojj both have under 30 rounds played

However I agree, on the last 3 bullet points and your conclusion. I think he is at least top 5 (top 3 if im feeling generous) considering he's still a valuable player in tier 1. The main thing I just wanted to point out is that stats don't reflect that he's a pretty consistent player if you adjust for his teams performance

suygetsu was the last straw for navi huh

actually scratch that, 3 seasons 4 max I just remembered SEN (not TenZ specifically) in 22/23

but honestly I don't think it's really probable for him to have such a dip for that long. He's only 23 so I think he has a good 3-4 years in him at least

I won't comment on the argument for best Viper oat since I don't think he is
but I think you're cherrypicking your stats to make him look even worse than he actually is
I'll show you, I can cherrypick all of his wins, and if you only count these (barring 1) he looks a lot better than he is.
The truth is he is somewhere in the middle

https://www.vlr.gg/353169/team-liquid-vs-karmine-corp-champions-tour-2024-emea-stage-2-w3
https://www.vlr.gg/318940/team-liquid-vs-gentle-mates-champions-tour-2024-emea-stage-1-w5
https://www.vlr.gg/318928/team-liquid-vs-giantx-champions-tour-2024-emea-stage-1-w3 (low)
https://www.vlr.gg/318913/koi-vs-team-liquid-champions-tour-2024-emea-stage-1-w1
https://www.vlr.gg/297407/team-liquid-vs-koi-champions-tour-2024-emea-kickoff-opening-b

I would say 2 seasons of that kinda performance, maybe 3 max