no way you put aspas best Raze and not best Jett. Aspas' Jett is insane, he uses every single piece of her to almost perfection, very good movement and positioning which makes him very agile and the way he uses her smokes and updraft to get away, holding the dash to the very last moment makes him the best, the uses every single drop of value out of her kit and even her passive. His Raze is good but there are players like Jawgemo, Victor and Jinggg who are better than him. Think about it this way, if you were to play Split and you were to run Jett and Raze, where'd you put aspas? Not putting him on Jett would be throwing imo

As I said, don't you think teams already know that? I know how good Chamber can be when he can tank every util you throw at him and teleport easily, but still isn't as versatile as Jett. Jett is way more mobile and reliable, she can smoke herself and isn't that easy to overwhelm. The reason the waterfall TP works on Lotus is because there's a big ass wall that is also thin enough to let you place your tp behind it and play in front, making it hard to get overwhelmed since the enemy has to go all the way around the wall, howhever not every map has a place like that.
But what does that all have to do with Viper nerfs, that's where what you say doesn't make sense. Chamber's capabilities are not going to increase with Viper nerfs, if anything he was the best at getting past the attacking Viper setup with his teleport, if Viper somehow doesn't get picked (which I doubt) teams will still pick KJ and Cypher, and go double initiator every map. Teams know how to util dump a Chamber and the Viper nerfs are not going to change that

I didn't contradict myself, "It's just too versatile, it can be played aggressively...or you can play it insanely passive..." it clearly states it can be played both ways, and not how you said it needed an aggresivve comp around it. You are right with how good it is to take early fights with Chamber, when you win those engagements you can set up your Chamber on a aggressive sightline where he can get early info of enemies rotating, but don't you think teams know this already? The reason Jett and Killjoy work better than Chamber is because Jett already fufills that role you talk about, and Killjoy can fill the gaps with her passive hold. Also, do you think Chamber, an agent who excells with the Operator and aggressive sightlines would do good in a meta where teams run either 2 controllers or 2 initiators? In one hand you always have Viper who has insanely good reclear value, you can put your wall up on attack and slice the map to clear it easier with your initiator, making it easy to find a Chamber who would have got past your set up. And in the other hand, you have two initiators with also insane reclear value where they can just throw a Kay/o knife, Skye dog, Gekko flash, Sova drone and Chamber would be forced to teleport away. Harbor excells with reactiveness, that's why he's good in aggressive retakes or takes, but that doesn't mean his passive playstyle isn't good and definetly doesn't need an aggresive team

Killjoy has passive information aswell, her alarmbot is literally invisible until you hit it, and her tourret just watches a lane and spots players in line of sight. I don't know where did you get your logic but it seems like you just said a bunch of things like it made sense. Chamber trip is not that different from Kj's tourret or Cypher wires, and Viper Harbor worked insanely good because it's just too versatile, it can be played agressively, for example using Harbor cascades to flood into the site while defending, or you can play it insanely passive where you slice the map in ways where you give the enemy control over areas that are beneficial for them, but you playing behind the wall makes it very uncomfortable for them to do anything. A very obvious example is how Loud cut off themselves on Icebox on B, while defending. They put the Harbor wall as if it was a Viper attacking wall, giving you the plant and control of the front site, but they are all waiting behind it to spam and retake while you enjoy the small space they just gave to you. They did the exact same on Haven, walling themselves off on C giving you the plant, and the same with the Viper orb on A, giving you the free entry from long. And probably other maps, but I didn't watch all their games

TLDR: Viper nerf won't do anything to Chamber, and Harbor doesn't need a "aggresive comp" to work

bruh Demon1 just filled Astra because they wanted to play that weird ass Chamber comp, and for some reason he wasn't playing Chamber. He wasn't good on Astra, just decent enough as where he playing Astra wasn't throwing. You could see in multiple times how when he's in situations where Astra's util could make his life way easier, he doesn't even go in Astral form and just wants to out-aim as if he didn't have those tools in the first place. I can't blame him, his confidence and mechanics are insane, he had a lot of kills and was for the most part outright shitting on people, but saying that he was a good Astra is like saying yay or Cryo were good Sage just because they had high kills. The amount of outcome bias this forum has is insane

they'll learn that just because a player is highly experienced and has been playing since years doesn't mean he will be a good igl. That argument just breaks apart when you think about the fact that there are igls with no lan experience or igls that are very young

chileno fracasado aprende a hablar primero antes de dirigirle la palabra a alguien, que tienen que ver los otros br con lo que dijo less, siendo que fue keznit el primero en empezar a romper las bolas y querer hacerse el gracioso en esa partida porque el otro no hacia entry. Sos re pajero la concha bien puta de tu hermana, la gente como vos me da cáncer, en ningun momento defendí a ninguno y dije que los dos son igual de inmaduros y venis a defender al keznit, si queres la proxima atajale la chota con el orto

Basically Keznit got frustrated because Less wasn't entrying on Jett and because he was baiting. I don't really know if he was baiting, but they have 3 duelists, if he doesn't entry the other two can do it. After that someone in the chat asked Keznit if he had beef with Less and he replied "Nah, I don't care about that virgin stupid kid, he literally met his gf online". He didn't specifically said "stupid kid", he said "pendejo culiao" which is different but it has the same meaning. After that, Less muted him for no reason and keznit started being annoying in the voice chat, mocking Less and trying to annoy him specifically, which Less didn't even heard because he had him muted in the first place, it was his girlfriend (Omen) who told him keznit was doing stupid shit.

TLDR: Both are childish as fuck and did some stupid shit, but I hate how people from my region talks about Keznit like he was a saint and never did anything wrong, when he's exactly as childish as Less and the fans who support any of them

hermano, el less es un inmaduro y un pendejo bobo por mutearlo y decirle la del "gana un torneo" pero el keznit es un asqueroso diciendole a less que es un virgen y burlandose de que conocio a la novia por internet XD como si el fuera un cogedor siendo que tiene cara de turrito drogon y delincuente. Ninguno de los dos se salva, pero los chilenos hablan del keznit como si fuera un santo, cuando en esa partida se puso a romper las bolas porque less no entraba al site teniendo 3 entrys xd

What are you on wtf, he's played kj on 5 maps where his team stomped, of course his stats are going to be busted af. I don't deny he's good but you literally said that because he had a good map, every time a player has a good map this forum gets filled with "omg leaf best kj" "omg ethan best kayo" "omg mwzera best jett" smh

yeah but that was more of a flex pick of him, their main duelist in 2022 was Tacolilla, and because he was on Chamber kingg picked Raze but not like a traditional duelist like aspas or Derke. But I get your point

what's more insane is the fact that he's the best player in latam (not including brazil) and yet people don't even talk about him because he's not a duelist player. People talk all the time about keznit and people say he's the best player out here, but don't even realize that kingg has been consistently top performer on the events he attends. Keznit is very good, but the value kingg brings is on another level, he's the igl, flexible as fuck and has insane firepower

-qck +pancada
tuyz --> duelist
pancada --> smokes
(honestly I just said the first thing that came to mind, it may be braindead)

How come no one mentioned Bloody Stream? The best opening of all time no doubt

It's pretty weird since they love to play odd comps that end being the meta only to leave them. Remember how they played the OpTic Bind comp with the Chamber at the Americas League, that comp becomes the 'standard' (kind of) and then they go with a triple controller comp with Omen. They started the Harbor Viper meta last year, played it on Pearl at the start and the middle of the season, only to swap it on Champs and after not doing well with the new one, going back to Viper Harbor. Also on Split, I know they didn't create the Jett/Raze/Viper/Skye/Astra but they popularized it to almost every team on the Americas, to then change it. They definetly like to innovate and they do well doing it, but I don't understand why they don't play their own creations even when they become the standard. Also, this is a dumb take since when they innovate and they success we always call Loud the best, but when they don't it looks crazy to play Phoenix Breach and Viper on Ascent

he said their plan was to stay together, and once franchise was announced they knew right on the spot that no team could buy them 5 (5 counting Chet and not Marved) yay's buyout was literally as expensive as all the other guys combined, and that's why they separated

I legit was having the time of my life abusing Viper on Haven since literally no one was playing her there on rankeds and five stacks, and they removed it :( I hope they delete Breeze from the game and get Haven back

2022 Optic core would mop the floor with the current NRG

?

Remember in 2021 when out of nowhere they buffed her to give instant -50 hp when barely touching the wall or the orb, that shi was wild

yay's 4k against the guard on icebox and marved's ace on fracture to keep optic into the game, that series was peak it made me an optic fan fr

bro cypher on ascent has always been good