I mean, G2 disappointed a little I feel like? They were considered favourites for every tournament this year. Managed one 2nd place and then not even top 3 in the other 2 (where they were even more overwhelming favourites, I feel like) - still a fantastic year don't get me wrong though, but a little disappointing no?

Yeah but Kaajak also definitely did not perform to the same heights that Aspas did

I'm definitely remembering wrong then. Strongly underrating him apparently. Though he is definitely a flashy player, whilst the other players were not so much (except maybe Less) - will have to go back and rewatch some of the games.

I definitely think there's a strong argument for that. Find it a little more difficult to say for Aspas, as his performances usually do come at the cost of the team (which I'm not saying is bad, I mean if he almost breaks his own record two days in a row...) but it's different from Leo, which is a floor AND ceiling raiser, while I feel like Aspas is mostly a floor raiser. (Will for sure get your team to a good level, but hasn't won a trophy with any other team than Loud yet)

I'm not saying anything about how Demon1 wasn't at the first international. I'm saying that Leo was just straight up better. Demon1 was more flashy, but Leo was just better.

Thing is, Demon1 was really really good, but he was not on the same level as Leo was that year. Leo was undoubtedly the best player of 2023, why can't Demon1 just be 2nd best player of the year?

I mean maybe I am underrating him from his champs, but I do think both Sacy and Pancada were much better for them in 2022. They both had incredible impact that year, and I do think Aspas really leveled up from 2023 onwards.

Oh no, I don't think stage 1 problems were DH or Sylvan's fault (don't remember exactly when they subbed Sylvan out) - I just find it a little odd to specify Bangkok Sylvan. I think the system itself was fucked, and that led Sylvan to under perform in certain situations - Sylvan/MF are very similar players so Idk who I'd take over the other honestly.

He kept it up, congrats on the win :D

it's really just like, him, Chronicle, Nats and Boaster who have been consistently amazing from when they started through to now. I'd argue for Derke as well, though he only made 1 international this year. Very hard to be that consistent.

that's just not true? he had a bit of a slump in toronto and stage 2, but he's the 2nd rated player overall in the entire vct 2025. no 1 is Slowly, who only played less than 500 rounds regionally.

Oh yeah he's probably the most consistent player. I think his performance in 2022 was not nearly as good as people remember (He wasn't what made Loud 2022 great, I personally think he might've been their weakest player in 2022) - but I don't really think he was the best player of any year. But he's like top 10 almost every year, which no other player can say.

sometimes people are overly negative, but he just doesn't deserve a shout in this specific context.

no this is fair actually, it just means best. It's giving information in a weird way - you're breaking the cooperative principle!

Okay need a little context, why are S0m and Mada here but not Brawk? Or has my view of Brawk just been giga inflated by the whole GX game where he absolutely fried them? And is this current form in playoffs or overall in tournament? Because I think Forsaken has been better than Something in the playoffs, but Something the best overall.

Now this I can get behind

I'd have to see it first honestly, people said the same thing about Ethan in 2024 for example. Not saying he can't, but also - he's an incredible player individually, depending on how his performance drops off when igling, it might not be worth it.

Then your team comp only has 4 agents? 1 reveal/smoke/dive is 3 + pick one is 4

who's igling for this team though?

are we just ignoring the fact that they played pretty dang good in general against Team Heretics? Sure they messed up Ascent, and got dominated by NRG, but it's not like they completely fucked playoffs up

I don't really think that's so much underestimating Doma as it is the facts that:
Team chemistry is incredibly important, and losing a player like that does have impact on the chemistry. On top of that, Doma knew that he'd play very last minute.
Alfajer is just an incredible player (currently 2nd rated overall in champs) - replacing alfajer is near impossible.

there's a reason everyone's saying both that it's incredibly impressive from Doma/Fnatic but also that Paper Rex messed up, Paper Rex were overwhelming favourites.

Ruxic and Keiko for sure, I don't think Suygetsu looks nearly as good on controller as he does on senti. So for controller I'd probably go mf. S0m, Valyn for sure too, could see an argument for V1c and Kingg, but not as clear. F0rsaken, Karon, Mako yeah, but DH haven't seen enough of and it's a bit disingenuous to specify bangkok for sylvan. CN with Rushia and Smoggy yeah.

That said, he'd probably go to an APAC team, most likely RRQ. Since PRX won't put him back in probably, and GenG, DRX have better smokes, T1 is full korean, Talon is full Thai, DFM/ZETA mostly Japanese. Team Secret might be an option?

nahh NRG & GX are hella entertaining to watch

I mean, Lakia still played really well in Shanghai. But looking at it, all of the players at least peaked when they won the trophy (Boostio, for example, was fragging pretty heavy, he did not look nearly as good after champs.)

I think Lakia was incredibly important for GenG, especially since it seems he played an important role for mental and calling. But he didn't really individually peak during their trophy winning run. He was much better at Madrid, Champs and the regional matches imo.

So in franchising we've had:
Lock in Sao paulo and Tokyo for Fnatic 2023: Boaster, Leo, Chronicle, Derke & Alfajer
Champs 2023 for EG: Boostio, C0m, Ethan, Demon1 & Jawgemo
Masters Madrid for Sen 2024: Zekken, TenZ, Zellsis, JohnQT & Sacy
Masters Shanghai for GenG 2024: Munchkin, Meteor, T3xture, Lakia & Karon
Champs 2024 for EDG: Nobody, S1mon, ZmjjKK, Chichoo & Smoggy
Masters Bangkok for T1 2025: BuZz, Izu, Sylvan, Meteor & Stax (& technically Carpe)
Masters Toronto for PRX 2025: Patmen, F0rsaken, D4v41, Something & Jinggg

I think if you count Carpe, it's him. Not even flaming him as a player, but he played only 1 series, where he didn't play all that good. He's the 2nd lowest rated player for that tournament. Otherwise, I think it'd have to be between Lakia, S1mon and C0m. They all played a super supportive role for their team, and made them not play nearly as good individually. My shout would have to be Lakia, even if he played pretty dang well.

yet they still won a ton with Sylvan, until his confidence broke. His controller util was unmatched

frfr like imagine conquering like half the world for spices and then actually using them.... like who would use them then?

I AM MAN IT SMELLS SO GOOD - U USING GARLIC???

Wait holy shit a vlr user comes with a roster rebuild that actually makes sense????

Daiki

Teams value initiators a ton - you're least likely to see a non initiator comp (other than smokes, but you'll basically never see that). Even if fade haunts don't get much value, they get pretty decent value, and the prowlers are pretty good. Will probably be either skye/fade combined with a vyse. Most likely Raze/Yoru, Omen, Viper, Vyse (or another senti, Chamber/Cypher/Deadlock) and then either Skye or Fade.

You make a good point honestly. It's a little nit-picky from me too, seeing as he's been a very consistently strong player since 2022. I don't think you could argue that Masters Tokyo was a good performance from Aspas, though it wasn't from the entirety of loud tbf. His champs 2022 was also not great, but that's 1 really bad, and 2 somewhat below average tournaments. Still 7 tournaments where he did average to great. Again though - arguing for aspas top 10 oat for sure, probably even top 5 - just not the absolute best.

That makes sense to some degree, but to me it feels like people look back at loud as if he hard-carried them, when that makes no sense to me. He definitely elevates teams, but I don't think he's undisputed top 3 oat.

That could be it? I'm not saying he's terrible or anything, I just feel like everyone acts as if he's god's gift to valorant, when he doesn't feel that much above the other top players. Personally would have him in my top 15 of all time, probably around the #7 spot though, not #1.

Oh, he's for sure a really good player, don't get me wrong on that. But people act as if he's undisputed top 3, and I don't think that's true. Maybe it's nit-picky, but I feel like he gets rated way too strongly, when I think Chronicle, Derke, probably Alfajer now, maybe even Forsaken or D4v41 for example are stronger players overall than him, especially over the years. Everyone acts as if he's the undisputed goat (though Chronicle definitely gets his flowers atp, it was/has been aspas for very long) when I don't think that's realistic.

Genuine question here, what makes people rate aspas so high? Why'd he get the mvp from champs 2022? (at least, he's listed as such on liquipedia)

While I'm definitely not here to debate that aspas is shit or something, I feel like people rate him #1 or the goat of valorant so consistently, while I just can't comprehend that. The trophy he won, champs 2022, he was not worthy of the mvp. I might misremember this, but I felt like Pancada played the best, or you could argue Less or Sacy. I don't even think Aspas is in the discussion for best player of champs 2022. You might argue Aspas for the best player on Loud for Reykjavik, him or sacy at least. For 2023 Lock/in you could argue him or Less, I guess you could argue aspas best player on loud for tokyo, but they did bomb out 0-2 and he didn't perform good... And for champs 2023 he played his best games, when Loud lost - I don't think he's undisputed the best player on his team or in the world for all of 2022-2023. I think he was the best player for Lev at shanghai, but they didn't make it out of swiss... In champs 2024 it's a bit more difficult, I think he was their best player. Him or Kingg.

Not to say he's not top 10 oat, or a bad player or whatever - Like the eye test is easy enough. The dude frags, it's like he's got magnetic bullets sometimes, but not always. And his consistency on other agents has always been a bit rough, not to mention his toronto performance (which I don't think should weigh very heavily). But what makes people rate him so high?

Ahh alright, fair enough. I was honestly just curious to see what made you put who where. Hope I didn't come across as too aggressive hahaha, just wondered what your thought process was :)

Leo was not nearly as flashy, no, but he was so incredible the entire year. Best player of 2023 and I think that's not even super close.

within this list, why is Loud considered a peak? I feel like Loud were good (top-level team even) from 2022-2023 maybe even beginning of 2024.
For consistent Leo & KangKang I'm not entirely sure, since I feel like they both had crazy insane peaks, but weren't super consistently at that super high level?
Also you have Leo twice, in consistent and peak - is that on purpose?

Last is I'm unsure of peak. A few ones make sense (most of the teams make sense honestly - though GenG, Loud? Gen G is up in the air I suppose, if they have a good champs this year I'd argue they'd make consistent. Loud had 2022 where they placed 2nd and won champs, and then in 2023 placed 2nd and 3rd in champs. That has to count for consistent rather than peak, no?) Sayf, Crashies, Pancada and Sacy I think shouldn't be in peak. I don't think Sayf has had a consistent good year (might've been 2023?), but Crashies, Pancada and Sacy have shown that their peaks definitely weren't one-time things. At least Sacy should be out of peak, 2022 with Loud and 2024 with Sen.

Specifically talking about Untraded first kills and untraded first deaths

F0rsaken:
UFK: 7.5%
UFD: 6.5%

Alfa:
UFK: 14.8% (This is insane by the way, Kaajak had 17.4%)
UFD: 8.8%

These stats are so strongly different because of the roles, and how the teams themselves played (Prx strongly favouring team fights, and Fnatic playing a lot slower, with a lot more inserts/lurks). I'm not saying that Alfa didn't get crazy value with it, but F0rsaken played his role nearly perfectly. If F0rsaken didn't play how he played, PRX wouldn't have won. Alfa could've played worse, and they still would've lost. F0rsaken had more impact, even if Alfa played better individually.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he did not attend any internationals in 2022 right? 2020-2021 with an insane form I will admit, though he wasn't really known in 2020. Very scary in 2021, for sure, incredible performance. But he was the 3rd best player on Navi in 2023. Shao & Suygetsu were both better than him (though very close, to be fair). By far a top 3 oat operator player, but he has the same accolades as Demon1, 1 really really insanely good year, a champs trophy, and no real impact afterwards. F0rsaken has missed 3 internationals.

F0rsaken might not put up insane stats, but he has incredible impact. He was crucial in winning prx the trophy (you could argue Alfa should've had mvp, but F0rsaken won so many rounds for them - Alfa fragged super hard, but F0rsaken had a crazy clutch rate, amazing amount of assists, and very little untraded first deaths, and a good amount of untraded first kills.)

If anything, he has to be above Cned. Cned had an amazing tournament with the first champs, but he's not played good enough to be considered top 20 oat at all.

Cned, Less, Mako and Tenz all above Forsaken? I feel like Forsaken should be above at least one of them, no? Above Cned for sure?

Uhhh yeah kinda, I just think that Paper Rex lost to themselves in both finals, they weren't nearly playing their best. You could argue the teams were better, but I think the peak was way higher for PRX in both cases.

They choked 2023 champs 100% and I'd argue they choked Copenhagen too. Fpx was patient enough to wait them out.

They have like a 62% winrate since 2024? The only recent loss they had was against G2 in RBHG with Sayonara and Kaajak just recently signed

I think you've got enough examples that f0rsakeN/d4v41 don't really need to be mentioned, as I don't think they're really IGL (Also not sure how much I'd count Munchkin and Stax under fragging igl's like the rest). Then again, you're very much right that being an IGL should not have an impact on your performance like that - especially since Boo had a pretty damn good year in 2024 individually - but maybe he has to reel the other players in more or something? Something definitely not working for TH at least.

Apart from the fact that he doesn't want to play duelist, Woot would be an insane duelist for TH, no? I might be missing something here though, feel stupid lol

As much as I have a soft spot for Stax, it is true. Glad to be of help to translate hahaha

When stax plays at his worst, it's better than when Munchkin plays at his worst. (individually speaking) When Munchkin plays at his best, that's better than when Stax plays at his best.

Stax specifically was the main initiator player for T1, but he played flash initiator whenever possible. I think the fact he played a lot of recon was moreso a product of the comps they played (lots of double duelist, or at least little double ini), and the fact that he strongly prefers the initiator role. Any double initiator comps they ran, he was the flash initiator (breach on fracture or kayo on bind, for example.) and gave up the recon to Izu. Nobody definitely played the recon mostly though, with S1mon being full flash initiator.