Horrible format

#1

Anguibok

Stage 2 will run from July 16 to September 6, and will again have two groups of six teams. The top two teams from each group will qualify directly to the Stage 2 playoffs, while the remaining eight teams, comprising of teams placed third to sixth in the group, will move to the Play-In stage. At the Play-In, they will be joined by four teams from the region's Challengers leagues to compete in a double-elimination bracket. The third and fourth-placed teams from each group will earn a first-round bye in the upper bracket. The top four teams from the Play-Ins will advance to the Stage 2 playoffs.

Does that also mean that they are no point system anymore and regularity mean absolutely nothing now ? So if you win every single series during the game and just loose the 2 series you must not loose you are out ?

WAIT A MINUTE does that mean we will have AGAIN an horrible bracket with 12 team ?? The exact same bracket we have for kickoff beside the Triple elim ? Common Riot stop this madness. It's insane that after 3 game in groups stage, half of the team will just fight for an half round of bye (Only an half, because remember that in a 12 team bracket, a team that loose get rewarded by a round of bye). I can see at least 2 better format than than giving the same number of team :

The bracket would make so mush sense if you give 2 round of bye for the 2 team that end 3rd and a round of bye for the 2 team that end in 4th. (Personnal fav)
Just put directly the 4 bottom 2 team in the lower bracket would also solve EVERYTHING

Link to see the current bracket, the best proposition and the alternative proposition https://imgur.com/Cfqc18E.png

Edit : Okay point are here, and it's even worse, it's absolutely unfair for T2 team, theonly way for a T2 team to qualify is to make top 2 in stage 2, they might beat 13-0, 13-0 a team and secure the 3rd place, and still getting eliminated by that team because this team have point and the T2 doesnt.

#2

Duduajo

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Another yee yee ass complain of a good format

#6

Anguibok

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I gave argument (I could also mention 3 video I made on that specific subject with data and stuff), and I give solution, what are your argument for saying this format is good and better that what I purposed ?

#3

poiuu20

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no

#4

hibunbun

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shut the fuck up it's good format

#5

9wntr

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meh

#7

foythvlr

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Does that also mean that they are no point system anymore and regularity mean absolutely nothing now ?

Do you mean the Circuit points? Where did you get that from that text? It is for champs qualification they can be there regardless of stage 2 format

So if you win every single series during the game and just loose the 2 series you must not loose you are out ?

Yeah that's how every tournament works. You can do well on the groupstage but if you do bad when it matters you will be eliminated. Triple elimination/Swiss stage would be better maybe but idk if they have the dates to do that

A bye for better-placed teams is fair i dont understand what's the problem here.

Edit: just saw the image you posted. I don't understand what's your train of thought to assume R1 losers will get a bye. They will just play the LR1 with the R2 losers then whats the difference lol

#13

Anguibok

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You are right on the Champion Point, but it might be even more worst, because it mean to go to champs a T2 team will have to be a top 2 team instead of a top 4 team wish is even more dumb.

Yeah that's how every tournament works.

Since they are Point it's not the case, so all good

A bye for better-placed teams is fair i dont understand what's the problem here.

My point is that it's only for one round, and giving a bye for the worst placed team that just lost is not good, and thats what we have sadfully x)

Edit: just saw the image you posted. I don't understand what's your train of thought to assume R1 losers will get a bye.

Because thats the case in EVERY double elim with 12 team, it's just people dont notice it.I'll take america KO 2025 as an exemple,

Round 1 : Furia beat 2G,
Round 2 : Furia play Lev and loose, while 2G that just loose have a bye
Round 3 : Furia in 1-1 and 2G in 0-1 are just in the same placein the bracket
In a 16 team bracket, 2G would have play a 0-1 team instead of a bye

#17

foythvlr

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to go to champs a T2 team will have to be a top 2 team instead of a top 4 team wish is even more dumb.

or top 3 if they reduce the points teams but yeah
but it kinda is what it is within the system. if we go that way we can say the entire franchising is dumb (which it is). T2 needs to work extra hard but at least they have the shot. but one way or another someone will get fucked over with the spots

and i understand the logic of the bye now but i honestly do not think its that big of a deal. being 0-1 or 1-1 doesn't really make a difference in the lower bracket and the whole lower bracket logic itself already allows that kind of shit to happens regardless of number of teams

#18

Anguibok

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or top 3 if they reduce the points teams but yeah

Nope because of that :

At the end of Stage 2, the top two teams will advance to Champions 2026, where they will be joined by the top two teams that qualify via Championship Points.

T.T

but it kinda is what it is within the system. if we go that way we can say the entire franchising is dumb (which it is)

I disagree franchise is good and path to champ and master are needed, but that need to be better implemented there, remove the playin, make it an LCQ and we are good.

Being 0-1 or 1-1 doesn't really make a difference in the lower bracket

Having a bye to prep is strong, I need more data to be sure but I already have 2 video that show data that proove loosing round 1 seems better than loosing round 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvn-sRsuZTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adv7_Vb_29U

lower bracket logic itself already allows that kind of shit to happen regardless of number of teams

This ain't true, this is a problem specific to 12 team, we don't have this problem with 4/8/16 or 5/10/20 team bracket, the bye is only for the winning team or best seeded teams

#19

foythvlr

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At the end of Stage 2, the top two teams will advance to Champions 2026, where they will be joined by the top two teams that qualify via Championship Points.

Rough but they would have to go on a run anyway so not that different tbh, just two-three more decisive matches

I disagree franchise is good and path to champ and master are needed, but that need to be better implemented there, remove the playin, make it an LCQ and we are good.

I mean conceptually they are kinda the same? If anything it just gives more chances since its almost the same path (non-qualified teams) + the opportunity to get the spot from the before "qualified" teams since its 2 spots now vs 1 before. Honestly to me the ideal is to give 1 spot to points and bring LCQ back, keep the format with playins. 2 spots from playoffs, 1 LCQ, 1 points. everybody plays a lot of games and its happy

Having a bye to prep is strong, I need more data to be sure but I already have 2 video that show data that proove loosing round 1 seems better than loosing round 2

Can't watch the videos rn so remind me later thats interesting to know. But it feels like you are talking about time of preparation which is more of a schedule problem than format itself (but both are connected so who knows). I always felt like riot punished lower bracket runs a lot specially vs losing upper brackets so i kinda don't agree but you might be onto something

#24

Anguibok

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I'm lost on the 2nd point ^^

Schedule but also "You have more game to analysis your opponent"

#8

Shadow_Monarch

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TLDR???

I don't care as long as we get to see 12 teams instead of 8 at Masters.
16 for Champions for sure too.

#10

Hyxagon

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for stage 2, top two of each group go to playoffs, bottom four of each go to a play in where the 3rd and 4th from each group get a buy. they’re joined by 4 tier 2 teams, and the playin is like last years kickoff format. top 4 of playin go to playoffs
this guy is complaining that if a team is guaranteed bottom four, there’s nothing to play for (not even true bc points) and that the play in format is shit (which i don’t think anyone else agrees with)

#11

Shadow_Monarch

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Oh interesting. What are happening to the "bc points"? Were they removed or still accounted for? I like this new format since we're getting more Tier 2 teams involved. More competitive action imo.

Edit: (Nvm just read your post below mine)

#14

Anguibok

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My complain is also that with a 12 team bracket, you gives a bye to a team that loose first round

#20

Hyxagon

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yea it’s a “bye” ig, but they will be seeded against a theoretically better team, so it’s not a game changing issue
and either way it’s the first round of a play in, it doesn’t matter that much in the end

#23

Anguibok

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Data shows that even if the team is better; the matchup become a 50-50 (or 40-60) because of the bye advantage, I made some video about that

#9

Hyxagon

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points are still a thing so every group match still matters
also putting the bottom teams from groups in the lower bracket is a terrible idea, in no world should the tier 2 teams be seeded above tier 1 teams for no reason.

#15

Anguibok

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Then go for the other bracket that I proposed.

#12

Hyxagon

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also putting the 3rd and 4th seeds from groups so close to the qualification makes it way less likely that the tier 2 teams even get a chance to qualify to playoffs, which is the whole point of the play in. i get it seems like it’s not fair for the better teams or something but esports isn’t all about competitiveness, it’s about entertainment too

#16

Anguibok

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Then go for the 1st bracket that I did propose. T1 team than end 0-13 should be glad they still have a path to champs even if it"'s threw lower bracket

#21

Hyxagon

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regarding your edit, i’m pretty sure they said that if a tier 2 team gets 3rd/4th, they’ll take a points slot

#22

Anguibok

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If thats true then it's a great compromise.