Literally no one cares, like we all know Aspas is a baiter and Chronicle gets carried. We don't need another 500 threads of you reiterating the same talking points like please find new propaganda.
Next year will tell us all we really need to know since Aspas handpicked his teammates and Chronicle left FNC to go to a team where's he expected to be more of a carry.
I think I remember seeing glittering_yard or someone say that Aspas was meant to go to bleed and MIBR was a last minute thing so even though he got some say in decision-making, it wasn't what he really wanted.
Idk how much of that is cope but it is true that FNC's roster is just straight up better granted I never really liked that argument since a player of Aspas' calibre can probably join any team itw especially so because he speaks english. Like obviously Aspas might not be comfortable on say G2 but is that not a limitation on his adaptability to teams?
Yes, it went something like this, in summary:
He was supposed to go to BLEED, MIBR was his last option, cortezia xenom were tier 2 recommendations from Sacy and Frod, and Frod begged aspas to keep artzin on the team
Nzr was the only IGL available at the time because he was sitting at FURIA's bench
The roster was made with what was left after BLEED got kicked out of VCT late into the offseason
It’s like Messi vs Ronaldo
Casual fans only love to debate that and don’t care as much about other players and just participate in this eternal debate
more people need to talk about the difference in eyetest. aspas is so clear when you use that metric.
The way I've always seen this debate is that:
Aspas is amazing at taking his own duels, making the high percentage play and taking his own timings to get these impressive clips. Meanwhile Chronicle is a support player who elevates his teammates to a higher level with his great util, anchoring, lurking etc.
SO NO the eyetest is anything but a good metric since it's always going to be biased towards player who are expected to make these insane plays for the team. Like do see every flash Ethan throws when Mada entries, do you see the disruption and misinfo nAts feeds whilst his team entries, do you see the anchoring and space control Chronicle does whilst FNC is on the other side of the map? NO WE HARDLY EVER SEE ANY OF THAT. That's because the movements of stacks and executes are a lot easier to observe and judge how the rounds ends. But the other stuff does matter too, valorant isn't just execute simulator, there's a reason FNC spends take so long to do their executes and its because they are doing the other stuff and that sways rounds in their favour.
i strongly disagree. i mean just look at leo. he's a support player yet based on eyetest he played his role to perfection. meanwhile chron doesn't move me at all when i watch him.
and the examples you gave suck because it's so clear ethan's utility is amazing and we definitely see how impactful nats' lurks are.
Yes because Leo, the SCAN initiator, was such a profilic lurker so the naturally fact he gets so much attention despite not stacking with the team is simply because of his raw awesomeness and not all conducive to what I mentioned above
if anything that proves my point even more. leo demanded so much attention from the opposition and was probably a major part of their scouting report. whereas chron was solid but didn't have much gravity.
HOW DOES THAT PROVE YOUR POINT??? Literally everything I just said points to people in stacks, actively participating in executes having more observable impact. Leo was fucking pheomenal yes but he didn't draw attention just because of his skills, a major contributor is the fact we can SEE that easily when he enters site for the executes right behind the duelist
First off you assume all leo does is lurk which is false. Second yes, someone who gets frags consistently, gains information and space for his team, and provides util is much more impactful than a 3rd man in.
I literally don't know I can express sarcasm more clearly, sorry my fault for doing this over text but I am saying the opposite Leo is not a lurker. But everything you said applies to chron anyways
right. but my main point to you is that "eyetest" isn't just about flashy kills. it's about observable impact.
I am not saying it's just about flashy kills but generally people see the support less and when they do, they value it less than the flashy kills. In the example I gave prior about an empty site, I feel like everyone knows its advantage to have but I think people undervalue it compared to said flashy kills. Like people will remember aces, 4ks, 3ks even but they won't remember an insane 5 man flash UNLESS it converts kills, or they won't remember a single lurk kill that opens a site. Like you don't see people posting clips of flashes or single lurk kills despite their undeniable impact.
Anyways I made this thread not to argue about the Aspas/Chron debate but somehow got stunlocked by the eyetest thing. I think some of the points you make are valid but ultimately I still believe the eyetest will always favour duelist, and 2nd entries over more lurk roles.
wait let me also clarify I am not using this as an argument for Chronicle > Aspas, I am just saying the eyetest is stupid asf because the literal only time you'll see lurkers take favorable fights is if they get insanely good timing (using a mistake on the enemy's part) otherwise they are just at best taking raw 1v1s or at worst in a clutch scenario after the main stack loses the trades.
Like are you ever gonna freak out the same way you would if someone got a 3k with paranoia and flash assist as you would if a lurker calls for the team to rotate after finding an empty? No because the eyetest favours the former over the latter
No because the eyetest favours the former over the latter
lmao maybe to a casual who only watches ranked streams. anyone who watches even a little bit of vct can tell you just how how impactful a play like that is since it pretty much wins your team the round by giving your team a free bomb site and favorable post plant positioning.
https://www.vlr.gg/594417/meiy-clears-chronicle-heres-why
This is the REAL debate now.
Discord