It would be a success to pick up a single map with how much better the other teams in their group are

wdym when? they still have for the entirety of the time abyss has been in the map pool? (champs, kickoff, bangkok)

for a while i've considered Trent and Meteor non-negotiables when it comes to top 10 lists, prob over valyn and Jemkin

also would maybe have Kaajak instead of alfa but i see the argument

got a bunch of comedians in the comments today

its good enough for me :(

because i have a crush on you

nAts - senti/viper (IGL)
Keiko - primary smokes/raze if double duelist
something - yoru/dive if yoru gets nerfed
Trent - scan
f0rsaken - flex

everyone wins duels like 75% of the time, f0rsaken can flex the omen on lotus to support yoru raze
basically forces double duelist on bind/corrode and can get countered compwise but their ability to collectively take over rounds should be too good anyway

am i the only one who doesn't understand the astra on abyss glaze? is it because of the map size? seems likely but then i don't see teams play her on corrode?

ehh even tho sen and drx are aim heavy i think their strats/teamplay is still better than most t1 teams

VCT wants a mindset that wants to win everything that u can over the person who doesn't, no?

I think aspas would join my premier team first before playing breach flex for jdg

This poster will never drop his rank tho and we all know why LOL

idk if valyn winning champs would be goat debate with 1 title after meteor just picked up his 2nd earlier this year

what kind of bum ass condition is that bro

"if roster changes were no longer allowed"

I would agree if DRX weren't the undisputed best abyss team at champs last year, kickoff this year, and even at bangkok

they are legit abyss merchants

its really interesting seeing ragebait that isnt directed toward me

he might be gone even if they play well like LEV24 / LOUD23

im hoping liquid cooks for abyss, but its also possible that DRX given all this free time between their elimination and champs that they work out something on sunset or corrode that leads to a curveball in the veto

drx ban sunset
tl ban haven
drx pick abyss
tl pick bind
drx ban corrode
tl ban ascent
lotus remains

DRX permabans sunset while TL have banned icebox/haven all of stage 2 depending on which map their opponent is better at
DRX were the best abyss team of 2024, while TL have been flaming everyone on bind in 2025
DRX have been willing to float corrode, but lost their elim match to RRQ on corrode. unless they cook something new, they favor ascent/lotus over corrode
TL's lotus is better than their ascent. their win against FNC was mainly due to FNC's chamber comp

bro they made it to a grand final and i still cant name any of their players except for grubhub

the argument is who deserved champs more between BBL and TH

BBL was not at Toronto, so that point is irrelevant

u gotta win some matches if u want to be top 8 bro

BLEED 5 - 0 NRG

i think it's fair since PRX only dropped 3 maps in stage 2

nats ofc above keiko, Meteor is still contending best player in the world on a low A-tier team, and Trent looks renewed after G2's stage 2 stunt with BABYBAY helping their nerves a lot

i can see many valid arguments for putting keiko above kaajak and whzy on this list, but the rest is fine

i would have jemkin instead of ara, jemkin was the essential man in RRQ's lower bracket run through pacific

i think ppl overrate ara just cuz BBL was having legit the worst day ever and NAVI had ANGE1 who went 5-15 against ara to massively inflate his state

Sorry man, we'll be sure to use 'merchant' instead of ab*sers in the future since the language is too harmful for you to hear

TL vs SEN grand final with bind map 5 to finally settle the NA vs EU debate

miniboo

guy got the info from a stone tablet

until RRQ and MIBR show me they don't shit themselves at internationals, NRG on upswing and GroupRX with prep time clear them imo

Easiest:
TL - DRG - T1 - MIBR
TL - RRQ - EDG - MIBR

Liquid favored:
TL - NRG - T1 - XLG
TL - RRQ - SEN - XLG

Hardest:
TL - NRG - EDG - DRX
TL - DRG - SEN - DRX

any group with groupRX will be scary, although liquid are still favored to go 2-0 in any of these groups

b0bys0s0keke

25 eco kills lul

i lowkey get grossed out by the residual when milk slides down the inside of the glass

Heretics went 5-0 in stage 1 and got 3rd in kickoff lmao

yeah im sure he put people in an octagon during a clutch

im happy for NRG and especially brawk since ppl were hating on him after Verno got dropped, but wtf is "brawktagon" ? do ppl think it's aura to combine his name with octagon ??

or is there some ball knowledge im missing

"regional rivals" you mean regional daddies NRG and G2

somehow looking at the groups every group is the group of death and also the group of disappointment at the same time

minus zellsis
plus less

minus bang

sen are t2 players

anyone hating on these teams is forgetting the SEN24 miracle champs run that any of these teams could easily replicate

like these teams are NOT bad, they just aren't

team liquid

BLG, cove, failed superteam, 12-5, gave C9 first international

dubs

i agree that nAts is a top 5 player all time, he is the "get X some help" player that many other teams have, but he is playing an incredibly valuable role (senti IGL) as opposed to players like Oxy, Meiy, or marteen who are undoubtedly world-class but are more common to come by

nAts and aspas are the top two players when it comes to solo winning you rounds

chron, alfa, aspas, nats, derke in that order

i cannot express in words how much worse BBL are than TL, it should legit be 7-1 rn instead of 5-3 AT LEAST

these are like one in a trillion occurrences

yo

ruxic will shit on u guys

this guy can only win when he gets lucky spams bro