I think C9 looked very good. But I think they just fucked themselves over with the xeppaa addition. I don't think they should've because of the team chem already there. But they can definitely get their shit together. Unlike TSM which doesn't have a team structure. U NEED TO HAVE A TEAM STRUCTURE. TSM and C9 shouldn't even be compared because C9 are 10 times better than TSM

COMMON SENSE IS SUBJECTIVE. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ARGUMENT. Like no one's common sense is perfect and it's always affected by bias. That's the problem. Estimating is biased. Ask anyone in statistics as well. Everything is biased. But saying your common sense is less subjective than a ton of sport betters. Is possible. But I'd highly doubt it. Betters also watch the matches. So they also see how they play so they can spot much more factors than just match results. So yea.

And also Soniqs only lost 13 times while they've won 80 times. That's really good. That's even better than sentinels record. I don't know where you're getting that Soniqs lost many times in the tier 2 scene. When they're pretty much dominating it. While renegades(one of the biggest t2 teams) have a record of 15-48. That's around 68% while soniqs is 86%. But many would consider that info useless because they're only fighting tier 2 teams. But the fact is that they're actually playing really well. And that they're probably above tier 1.5 right now and can easily be tier 1 if they faced another team. If they faced another team. Your match results would be absolute shit but the betters who are willing to bet. Probably also watch tier 2 games because they are invested enough to bet. So they know that Soniqs could easily do it.

I do think that Fnatic were the best. But they probably aren't right now. That's what I was saying. But Fnatic's playstyle which is similar to some playstyles in NA was shown to be usually much more affective against sentinels than other playstyles. Such as the Hyper aggressive FaZe plastyle. That shit doesn't work against sentinels. And a slow counterstrat team doesn't work against sentinels because sentinels have better players. The only really true way to beat sentinels is too have better strats. And Fnatic probably have one of the best strat books in EU.

Me too. People are thinking that ABX is just worse than they expected. But it's more like GEN.G are just a shit ton more than people expected. My 3 teams that are gonna be reallly good in 3 months were ABX, GEN.G, and C9. C9 fucking somehow look so lost. I honestly don't know wtf they did but yea people didn't even think abt GEN.G. And GEN.G can def take this one.

I don't think Huynh is as bad as people say. But I think he does need to open is agent pool because his jett is too inconsistent. Honestly Huynh did carry sometimes and he did carry hard. But he just is too inconsistent. Nature was just a better fit. I think Huynh can fix this consistency issue by playing a more consistent agent like raze or sage but idk. I think Huynh can still be tier 1.5 but I do agree that Huynh was holding them back. But I think it was because he just didn't fit the team.

I'm not quite sure how you would find exactly how much more important it is because some things just can't be put into numbers. Sometimes the actual content in the matches matter. Because some teams can counter strat and teams can have playstyles that actually counter other teams. Like Fnatic vs sentinels. Fnatic is probably not as good as some other teams in EU right now. But they can probably do better against Sentinels than a ton of other teams in EU because they have a playstyle which is stronger against sentinels. There are many cases of this. I guess you could use just match results and be objective(not affected by bias). But then that'd just be an objectively bad way to do this because of many other factors which can affect a match rather than just the result. A lot of betters watch the matches as well. And I'll say this yet again that betters usually are better at us than this.

LMao i was talking on another thread and forgot to submit this post but wow someone actually did the same exact thing. I didn't expect this

C9, ABX, T1, Soniqs.

But how much more important it is. Is quite subjective. Like you'd have to actually use math and algorithms to be completely correct(which is what objective is, because estimating puts in your own bias which would affect it.) Also some teams can just have bad days which would also mess this up. Like checking match results is possible. But you would have to be very good at it. And usually most of us aren't. People who bet. Usually use their money wisely unless they're just a gambler but that's not as much the case in valorant as in csgo. Like using match results will always be subjective at some part. Also u said looking at the tiers of the teams on average. Well Soniqs has always been tier 2 because they always ran into Sentinels really early on. Does that mean they are still tier 2. Probably not. Their match results still look like shit because it's all renegades and shit but like there's no way to actually recognize that that is potential unless you actually watch those matches and analyze that Soniqs legitimately played it well. Like NRG can also 13-0 a lot of the teams in tier 2 probably. But they probably are much worse than Soniqs at the moment. Maybe my logic is pretty bad considering that I'm freewriting this. But your use of match results isn't objective. Nothing really is. And sports betters do use match results and feats. And they're usually better than us at this. That's the reason why betting odds are a pretty good way at finding the favored team.

The one problem. Is that using match results is still subjective because you have to consider some matches more important than others. It's like making a smash tier list. You have to consider matchups but you have to consider how important those matchups are. You have to be subjective at some point. Sports betters are usually better than most of us at this so using betting odds is probably one of the best ways to find a favored team. It might not be the best but there is no objective way to do this unless you have like 500 acres of brain power.

GEN.G vs SEN Grand Finals.

KEEP DOWNVOTING ME. I STILL WILL DRINK THIS COPIUM

GEN.G 3-0 SEN

jk SEN 3-1 GEN.G

SEN 2-1 V1

SEN 2-0 XSET

SEN 2-0 KCP

XSET 2-1 NV

Hot take: GEN.G 2-1 V1

SEN 2-0 Rise

NV 2-0 100T

GEN.G 2-1 XSET

GEN.G 2-1

V1 2-0 KCP

KCP 2-1

V1 2-1

:D

GENG 3-0

edit: jk GENG 3-2

oh god my pickems are almost the same as yours. Yikes im getting bad taste.

Respectable pickem. not bad.

https://www.vlr.gg/pickem/3d133c3c
Down vote me you won't.

I like how everyone here is actually supporting this org. This is the one time that all of vlr.gg is actually supporting a good thing. Good job immortals.

Good take

I think Immortals need it the least out of all of these teams but Immortals is literally meant to be a farm to create professional players to sell off to other teams. Like they don't need to do this. They just need other teams to recognize some of these players potential. And they'll buy. But Immortals are actually smart and they probably need it the least out of all of these teams. Immortals fell off because their core is gone. FaZe and TSM just look lost and unstructured. Immortals have the biggest reason to look bad but they still are trying to fix it at least. FaZe and TSM don't have reason to look like shit. They have to do something about it because they've looked way worse than immortals for much longer. Give Immortals 2 months and they'll look fine. Give FaZe and TSM 3 months they'll still look like shit because of their management. They are also ignorant to make changes. Really sad shit from these big orgs.

This is probably the biggest essay we've seen on vlr.gg. We are witnessing history.

https://www.vlr.gg/pickem/3d133c3c
here are my pickems. people are gonna downvote me so hard after seeing mine. and it does look very dumb. but all of these upsets are pretty possible.

good take 8/8 bait

https://www.vlr.gg/pickem/3d133c3c
Here's the biggest hot takes. I'm trying to predict upsets. I want to see GENG succeed and the classic sentinels lower bracket run. Honestly this is not as farfetched as it looks. This is probably gonna get downvoted but I'm submitting this.

C9 can still take this back though if they get their shit together. Hopefully they do.

ABX and GENG look very strong. Honestly both of these teams could've easily qualified if they were in different brackets.

What ABX shown on icebox. Was probably some of the best icebox attack I've ever seen. Jctstani doesn't look the most comfortable on the viper though. I think if they just change their comps a little and just make that style of igling more consistent. They could be a force to be reckoned with.

GENG just has really strong players. Gmd is still super underrated lmao. Shawn is still very good because he can aim and click heads very well. Nature is much more consistent that huynh and his agent pool is really strong. Koosta is probably one of the better sentinel/viper players because he consistently puts up numbers. And Mkael is decent.

I didn't watch many of the other games. But I'm not sure if they should've subbed in Xeppaa. But they just seem oddly lost. Like they had solid structure before but they just look lost. Really strange. But ehh I think C9 can definitely take it back.

Xset with zekken look very good. Honestly I thought they would fall apart without thwifo because I thought he was a part of the core of Xset. But they look even stronger. If they use zekken to his fullest potential. Xset could definitely qualify for masters. But still fuck the set because you really shouldn't do that to a player even though zekken is probably one of the best players in the world. At least Xset thanked thwifo for his hard work but still. That's not good.

KCP look very good. I remember them as FPL-C so I was about to call them that but they just look very good. They could upset some big names. Don't think they'll qualy for masters though.

NV look really strong. Definitely could qualy for masters.

Two big stonks that should be rising though. Are Darkzero(kookykoalas/dahoonkaboloos idk) and Soniqs. Soniqs definitely could've done more if they were against any other team than sentinels but it's unfortunate really. And DarkZero are not given enough praise for how good they look. It might be a honey moon period but I believe they can keep it consistent.

xset 2-0 rise. Wouldn't be too surprised with an upset but xset do look really strong after this change.

Yo wait this match reminds me of party parrots vs bonk a while back. That was my first time seeing bonk and I thought they were pretty good so this really shows how much valorant changed. pretty good match though.

Just stop taking the TSM copium and go to a therapist. And you'll be fine. Hopefully you are going to be fine if you actually need help.

Also andbox can take this back. We have seen them do much better on other maps. So who knows. I think it's still 50-50 but both of these teams should qualy for challenger finals.

I think you're underestimating koosta. koosta's actually pretty good

Who's the clown now

I mean their still better than most of the teams that are considered tier 1 in NA for the most part. Like I guess you really don't care about the whole NA scene then. Just like you are too lazy to understand the asian or european scene. Sentinels won't have a good time at berlin. :).

How are u on like 24/7 and ur not a troll. Stop actually being a good user. It makes users like me look like we have shit takes. jkjkjk.

I agree because I check FPX's and C9's page way to often but I'm too lazy to change my flair. FPX WILL WIN THIS TIME BOIZ. I MARK MY WORDS.
Also it'd be cool to have multiple flairs but that'd prob be a little strange.

FPX THIS IS YOUR TIME.

https://www.vlr.gg/pickem/e38db43b
FPX WILL WIN THIS TIME TRUST.

FNC 2-0 im marking my words