Berlin Seeding

#1

kobs_0

So as everyone should assume, NA will mix with LATAM to make 4 seeds across the 4 groups, LATAM is the only region with a single team moving on, every other region (other than EMEA) has 2.

SEA, BR, JP and KR will be split across the 4 groups in some mixed up way, no two groups will be similar, as such:

SEA matched with BR/JP or BR/KR or JP/KR
Two groups will not have NA, EMEA, SEA, BR for example, this should not happen; if it does, then well, rito pls

Predictions:
I believe Riot will use Iceland results to assist in the seeding, although many teams are not attending from each region, SEN KRU CR are the only 3 teams that will have made both events.

However, teams like Nuturn would previously be seeded high, therefore, one can assume VS will be as well. VS will most likely be in neither EMEA seed 1 or NA seed 1 groups; so probably Acend's group (EMEA 3); This gives effectively Acend the 3rd seed in that group, with VS being top seed and 100T being second seed - this followed by 4th seed team from BR (loser of finals, probably vivo; havan too good)

Going along with the 3 teams that placed in Iceland, SEN will obviously be the top seed in the event, meaning their group should have only one other strong team, potentially the top SEA seed. This paired with G2, EMEA's 4th seed in a group with NA's top seed. This assumes Riot seed LATAM as the "4th" NA seed. Finally, a weak team, similar to the likes of Vivo in group A, every group will need that one wildcard, this group having the bottom JP seed, CR.... if anyone reads this whole post i love u.

Now, KRU, another team from Iceland, likely seeded quite low in comparison to the likes of VS, all of NA & EMEA and even Havan Liberty; I think anyone is competent enough to see where I'm going with this one. The 4th team for this group being either F4Q, Zeta or the bottom SEA team; yes, I used a random number generator to choose this one.

And then for Group D, the leftovers.

Group A: VS, 100T, Acend, Vivo Keyd

Group B: SEN, BREN, G2, Crazy Raccoon

Group C: Gambit, Havan, Kru, Paper Rex

Group D: SMB, NV, Zeta, F4Q

I tried my best to come up with as fair seeding as I could here, and I can only assume that Riot will have a solid dozen analysts choosing some of these teams out, and as stated at the start of this very long post, (sorry) SEA, JP, KR & BR could be swapped in any way, but I tried to play off regional strengths the best I could.

The order of teams in each group is also seed order, I kind of had to put NA and EMEA at the top of most (b,c,d) groups as Iceland had SEN & TL topping the 10 teams in seeding at Iceland, however, I suppose group D could have say Havan Liberty or Zeta Division as its top seed.

If anyone agrees with these groups, I'd love to know who you think would move on from each, assume that in the single-elim bracket Winner A vs Loser C, Winner C vs Loser A (opposite sides of the bracket) and so on.

If you disagree, fair enough if you just downvote, it'll hurt a bit (not really) but if you feel like commenting how you think the groups will actually look, give it a go :)

EDIT: Filled in gaps in groups with EMEA, SEA seeded teams

#2

SuckUrMumBruv

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MAN I DONT WANNA BE RUDE OR ANYTHING BUT DO PPL REALLY READ THIS?

#8

kobs_0

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no, probably not. But I was feeling like a nerd so nerded out; as some might say.

#28

Casual

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I read it

#31

PrTsty

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I started reading until i saw vision strikers acend and br 2nd in one group

#3

mdz

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bro, i can deal with 100t stomping VK but imma be so sad if Havan ends up on the same group as EMEA#1 and doesn't even make it out of group stage or have a chance to play against an NA team

#5

DaviCollossal12

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havan would easily qualify as seed 2 in group C

#7

Noyn

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Facil nao mano, ta louco? KRU é muito forte também

#9

DaviCollossal12

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a kru é forte, mas acho que o cenario deles é um pouco mais fraco, entao acho que eles nao estejam tao preparados.

#11

Noyn

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Teddy e Chase disseram que a KRU é mesmo nivel se não melhor que Havan, Vikings, e VK/Furia

#29

hekzy

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Edit: nvm

#4

vollizie

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I ain't reading all that, I'm happy for you though, or sorry that happened.

#6

Noyn

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Great write up my friend, really appreciate it, thank you!

#10

Noyn

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In my opinion it should be:

Group A: Sentinels, Crazy Raccoons, SEA 2, G2

Group B: BR1, 100T, Acend, Zeta Division

Group C: Vision Strikers, Envy, EMEA 2, KRU

Group D: EMEA1, SEA1, BR2, F4Q

#12

bigpeensheen

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Group A would get butt fucked by SEN and you know it. Then again, its random seeding

#14

DaviCollossal12

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Havan, acend e 100T machuca o coração do brasileirinho

#15

Asphyxia

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Ez CR upset ngl. Don't make it too easy for the Chad Raccoons.

#17

JettOnetap

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No that's not how seeding works. CR and SEA2 both will be in 4th seed so they don't meet

#20

anuma108

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EMEA 2 has a much tougher group than G2, wtf

#56

Never_Wrong

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Not at all lol

#13

bigpeensheen

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Didn't read but nice work =)

#16

plas

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im sorry i didnt read any of it i just looked at the group but nice

#18

hellaeleganceyeah

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for all teams: https://imgur.com/a/2pUAuPW

groups prediction: https://imgur.com/a/weKWe63

ro8: https://imgur.com/a/UB6bEU9

#19

var1ance

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who wins smb or sen??

#23

hellaeleganceyeah

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idk that is the main question. i have designed this from the beginning to be na vs eu grandfinals like riot would want to. no team has really tested smb or sen, so if they meet at the grand finals then the esports scene is going to explode.

#24

var1ance

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true prob would be close games

#30

kobs_0

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this aged well.

#45

hellaeleganceyeah

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i have designed this from the beginning to be na vs eu grandfinals like riot would want to

im still partially right bucko

#21

plebwong

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Read this and can confirm it's a quality post.

One thing I wanna ask is why do you think Riot will have VS as top seed vs F4Q as bottom seed even though they come from the same region. Shouldn't the seeding between 2 teams from the same region be somewhat closer?

#26

kobs_0

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I believe Riot will seed it as such:

seeds 1-8 (in no particular order):
NA 1/2, EMEA 1/2, BR1, SEA1, JP1, KR1 --> Nice and easy.

I do have VS (KR1) being fairly high in seeding in that top 8, somewhere in the top 4 I think, whereas F4Q would be somewhere around the 13/14 mark of 16 seeds.

Groups would (should) be seeded similar to a normal double elim bracket:
1 8 9 16
2 7 10 15
3 6 11 14
4 5 12 13

I didn't necessarily follow that ^ with groups A-D (group A might be 3 6 11 14) - it is awkward to say that Acend would be seeded in the bottom half - but can't really place them much higher being 3rd of 4 in EMEA.

#22

Mrityunjay

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Bro , that means 100T wont make it to Playoffs thats Sadge

#27

kobs_0

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hahaha fair enough. If I'm honest, I doubt they get out of even a group with Haven and like SMB/GMB for example. Other regions looking really scary tbh

#25

MilanTheMyth

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PepoG

#32

PrTsty

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My guess
Seed 1: NA 1st, EMEA 1st, KR 1st, BR 1st
Seed 2: Na 2nd, Na 3rd, EMEA 2nd, EMEA 3rd
Seed 3: EMEA 4th, LATAM, JP 1sr, SEA 1st
Seed 4: br 2nd, kr 2nd, SEA 2nd, JP 2nd
I feel like riot wants to reward 1st place finishes so people stop throwing when it comes to seeding games
Also they sadi 2 EMEA teams might end up in the same group so my guess is 4th emea gets 3rd seed

#34

kobs_0

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I can get behind this seeding - but I think it favours NA and EMEA far too much. I can see Riot giving an advantage to region winners - but you also put SEA and JP top seeds in the bottom 8 teams seeding wise - I agree with the top seeds you put, however I would swap NA and EMEA 3rd place finishers with JP and SEA 1st place finishers.

EMEA 4th will also be a bottom seed in a group - makes the most sense. The rest, fair enough.

#33

juraf

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group C has 3 region winners so i doubt riot will do it like that

#35

swaglord69

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dayum if this is right 100 thieves have a hard bracket and only two out of vs, thieves, and ace can get out! i am happy envy lost to them!

#36

KOKUSHIBO

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Group A: Sentinels-Acend-KRU-CR

Group B: Gambit-Vivo Keyd-Zeta-Paper Rex

Group C: SMB-Envy-Bren-F4Q

Group D: VS-100T-G2-Havan

#39

swaglord69

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u have to switch G2 and ACE

#46

KOKUSHIBO

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seed1: sentinels , Gambit , smb , vs
seed2:envy ,100t,acend, vivo keyd
seed3:g2, kru,zeta,bren
seed4: havan,f4q,cr,paper rex

i made this predictions with this seedings, thats why acend will go to sen’s group

#37

kobs_0

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Update: This post is after Havan lost the top seed in BR to Vivo, changing some seeding :)

Instead of an edit, I figured a comment would do the same job; I put a bit more effort into avoiding issues with multiple regional winners being in the same group and focusing more on a 16-team double elim bracket setup with seeding. I focused on the top 8 and bottom 8 seeds to begin with, and how I split it up was:

Top 8: NA 1/2 ... EMEA 1/2 ... BR/KR/SEA/JP winners --> This is in no particular order

I also took Group A to play Group C in the 8-team single elim tourney as such:
^ this is to avoid regional teams playing each other early on, especially those regions with only 2 seeds, you'll see teams like this in Group A & D for example (vivo & havan) where they cannot meet until semi finals, or grand finals, should they both make it this far.

A1 C2
D1 B2

B1 D2
C1 A2

Where teams from the same group could rematch only in the grand finals.

Group A:
Sentinels vs G2
Zeta Division vs Havan Liberty

Group B:
Vision Strikers vs Paper Rex
100T vs Acend

Group C:
Gambit vs F4Q
BREN vs KRU

Group D:
Vivo Keyd vs NV
SupMass Blaze vs Crazy Raccoon

Top seeds in each group play the bottom, middle seeds play each other in the first round. Some CRAZY matchups if this is at all even close to correct, I do believe the NA/EMEA/LATAM seeds are mostly in the correct place, and it really seems like we all get a treat with that 100T vs Acend game early on in the tourney :)

edit: spelling

#38

Fat_Lard

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If Riot put VS, 100T and Acend in the same group then I will make 100 threads complaining about the seeding. They should have 1 EMEA team in each group, with 3 of those groups having NA teams and the last 1 getting VS. Imo the groups(in order of seeding) should be:
Group A: Sentinels, F4Q, G2, Crazy Raccoons
Group B: Gambit, Envy, Vivo Keyd, Paper Rex
Group C: VS, Acend, Bren, Zeta Division
Group D: 100T, SMB, KRU, Havan Liberty
The seeding would have Sentinels, Gambit and VS as the top 3 seeds(#1 NA is 1st cause of Iceland, #1 EMEA is 2nd and #1 KR is 3rd), then #2 NA, #2 EMEA, #3 EMEA(skip over #2 KR because they can't be in the same group as VS and skip over #3 NA because #3 EMEA would be in the same group as Gambit if we didn't), #3 NA(skip over #2 KR because if we didn't Envy would be in the same group as Sen), #2 KR, #4 EMEA, #1 BR, #1 SEA, #1 LATAM, #2 BR, #1 JP, #2 SEA, #2 JP. With this seeding, all of the NA, EMEA and KR teams are the top 9 seeds since they were clearly the 3 best regions at Iceland. Then, the #1 BR team is next because Vikings finished 5-6th, followed by the #1 SEA and LATAM teams. Then, the last 4 could be in any order really(#2 JP is logically a lock for last though). You could argue that the #2 SEA team should be above the #2 BR team and the #1 JP team because X10 finished above Sharks and CR but I value the placing of Vikings and the fact that Zeta Division are a 1 seed above the fact that X10 finished better at Iceland.

#40

kobs_0

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Ok, now while I understand the argument of NA EMEA and KR being the 3 best regions at Iceland, this is not Iceland, and anything can happen; I can only recommend looking at other eSports and seeing that regional seeding at international events are not influenced by previous events as much as it may seem.

Having said that, yes, it is obvious that SEN, GMB and VS will have the top 3 seeds, but after that, every team, especially regional champions, deserve a fair shot and fair seeding rather than seeds 10-16. I don't think it's at all a good idea to be ranking F4Q above all of Vivo, Bren, Zeta and KRU; all regional champions, while F4Q are not. In terms of seeding, the top 6 should technically all be regional champions, however, I don't believe Riot will do this as EMEA have double the teams representing as BR, KR, etc. do, and so they should have more teams in that top 6 (or 8, in this case).

If we were to purely look at Iceland results, then we can simply say:

NA top seed
EMEA bottom seed
KR top seed
EMEA top seed
BR top seed & NA bottom seed
LATAM top seed & SEA top seed
Japan top seed & BR bottom seed

Those are the regional (with seeds) finishes of Iceland; and so, now let's effectively convert that to Berlin, we'd have in some order

SEN, G2, VS, GMB, Vivo, NV, KRU, Bren, Zeta, Havan

and outsite of those 10, we'd have Acend, 100T, CR, F4Q, PRex and SMB.

As an addition:
100T, Acend and VS is only my own prediction of how the groups will work out, if you look at it from afar you have KR#1, NA#2 and EMEA#3; now while I see this is a lot of people's 3 favourite teams, simply put, this is why seeding matches matter. There are people out there who say Acend didn't try against GMB in the match to bounce into the finals, whereas if they had, they could potentially be in an "easier" group. Same thing goes with 100T.

#43

Fat_Lard

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That would be horrible groups tho. Why would they have 1 group with 4 teams being from the top 4 regions from the 1 international tournament we've had? Making groups that focus on where you placed in your region rather than how good your region is is illogical and would lead to horrible groups like the one's you presented. I'm not trying to insult you, you're just making a prediction, but I'm trying to say that scaling the regions based off of Iceland is a more logical way to do the seeding.

#41

pluggg

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come on can we just wait for the official. people really be impatient.

#52

kobs_0

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no, that would be boring.

#42

ChowChow

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A : NA1, EMEA4, BR2, SEA1
B : NA2, EMEA3, BR1, JP2
C : NA3, EMEA2, KR1, SEA2
D : EMEA1, LATAM, KR2, JP1

#44

V0sotros

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been a while since I've seen an actually quality post here, Group A looks like the group of death lol

#47

MackeezZ

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Group A: Sentinels, G2, Bren, F4Q
Group B: 100T, Acend, Vivo Keyd, Crazy Racoon
Group C: SMB, Envy, Kru, Paper Rex
Group D: Gambit, Vision Strikers, Zeta, Havan Liberty

Every Group get an EMEA team
Every Group get an NA team or VS(1st seed from best region at Iceland)
Every Group gets a regional 1st seed
Every Group gets a regional 2nd seed

#48

Adri98

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Really ez to make top 1 for the EMEA teams

#49

DumboVAL

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Group A: VS, 100T, Acend, Vivo Keyd
Advances: 100T + Acend

Group B: SEN, BREN, G2, Crazy Raccoon
Advances: SEN, G2

Group C: Gambit, Havan, Kru, Paper Rex
Advances: Gambit, Havan

Group D: SMB, NV, Zeta, F4Q
Advances: SMB, NV

#50

Adri98

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Group A really stacked
Group C easy

#51

Fire737

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Wrong seeding
Riot said two eu teams will be in the same bracket

#53

kobs_0

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Do you have a link to this? Unless it was from today then I'm not sure what source this is from.

#54

Fire737

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https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/1428802281474981890?s=20
It might happen

#55

kobs_0

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I see, fair enough! In which case, I assume Gambit and G2 would be put in the same group on opposite ends, now for the two teams that fill that group up, that would a whole mess that I might have a little fun with later on.

Thanks for linking :)