Make it make sense.

What I don't get about the constant back and forth about trans women being in game changers is how many people (99% men) argue that Game changers isn't needed because there isn't a reason for men and women to be separated in esports like there is in traditional sports. (Even though that isn't why Game Changers is a thing.)

But when trans women (Bob, florescent, etc.) pop off in Game Changers, suddenly the discussion of biology begins again.

Also if you argue that trans women in GC are faking their identity to play in an "easier" league, you're a fucking idiot. No person is going to fake being trans just to play in GC and most trans players who are in GC identified as trans way before they even started playing in Game Changers.

rapiDtheLad [#3]

This point doesn't make sense when you ask yourself how many trans women are playing in the main league as well. The only example is Bob because she used to play for Soniqs (Still identified as trans when on Soniqs btw btw) and she's playing for C9 White now.

I mean if u consider all leagues + other games (csgo for example) you sure have WAY more trans woman then trans man (in fact i've never seen a trans man on e-sports ) but whatever

then why is gamechangers a thing?

sank3tsu [#4]

I mean if u consider all leagues + other games (csgo for example) you sure have WAY more trans woman then trans man (in fact i've never seen a trans man on e-sports ) but whatever

And although I agree with you that Trans women are more common than trans men it seems (although I can't really argue that it's factual) that isn't the fault of trans women. The point of Game Changers in the first place is to give marginalised genders a chance to compete in a space that is dominated by men and generally unfriendly to women. (Don't argue that women don't face abuse in gaming for being women, that's being willfully ignorant.)

rapiDtheLad [#3]

This point doesn't make sense when you ask yourself how many trans women are playing in the main league as well. The only example is Bob because she used to play for Soniqs (Still identified as trans when on Soniqs btw btw) and she's playing for C9 White now.

.

but there are cases of ppl faking to be non-binary? what crack are u smoking

haizzz [#5]

then why is gamechangers a thing?

Game changers is an initiative to help give women and other marginalised genders a chance to compete in a space that is dominated by men and that is generally unfriendly towards women (although that has gotten better over time but still not to a point where women don't have to worry about being harassed just for their gender. Same with trans people.

haizzz [#5]

then why is gamechangers a thing?

game changers is a thing to allow regular competition and prize pools for a player base that has been isolated from esports due to a slew of things included harassment and sexism.

You know how bad it has been when in OW a really good female player was on the scene and her competitors threaten to quit the game if she didnt get banned for cheating because they couldnt believe a women would be that good.
She was confirmed to not be cheating made OWL and her accusers retired

rapiDtheLad [#6]

And although I agree with you that Trans women are more common than trans men it seems (although I can't really argue that it's factual) that isn't the fault of trans women. The point of Game Changers in the first place is to give marginalised genders a chance to compete in a space that is dominated by men and generally unfriendly to women. (Don't argue that women don't face abuse in gaming for being women, that's being willfully ignorant.)

I mean , i really dont mind that theres trans girls playing with the other girls . And i do agree that the gaming community(competitive one) has some toxic people towards women

capital_d_colon [#10]

game changers is a thing to allow regular competition and prize pools for a player base that has been isolated from esports due to a slew of things included harassment and sexism.

You know how bad it has been when in OW a really good female player was on the scene and her competitors threaten to quit the game if she didnt get banned for cheating because they couldnt believe a women would be that good.
She was confirmed to not be cheating made OWL and her accusers retired

I mean , it not really that difficult to doubt on her . There were a female cod pro that everyone thought she was cheating even tho she called it sexism and stuff , latter she was banned . + the fact that Female pro teams hardly WIN or play from equal to equal against Male pro teams in almost every game is one more reason to people doubt on her

sank3tsu [#12]

I mean , it not really that difficult to doubt on her . There were a female cod pro that everyone thought she was cheating even tho she called it sexism and stuff , latter she was banned . + the fact that Female pro teams hardly WIN or play from equal to equal against Male pro teams in almost every game is one more reason to people doubt on her

who was the cod pro?

sank3tsu [#12]

I mean , it not really that difficult to doubt on her . There were a female cod pro that everyone thought she was cheating even tho she called it sexism and stuff , latter she was banned . + the fact that Female pro teams hardly WIN or play from equal to equal against Male pro teams in almost every game is one more reason to people doubt on her

I mean putting your whole career on the line to try and prove the singular female pro at the time is cheating is alarming to say the least.
the amount of harassment was absurd.

would she have faced this if she was a guy?
no.

hiimnsk [#13]

who was the cod pro?

Sorry , she was a streamer mb

capital_d_colon [#14]

I mean putting your whole career on the line to try and prove the singular female pro at the time is cheating is alarming to say the least.
the amount of harassment was absurd.

would she have faced this if she was a guy?
no.

I mean , gaming community has way more guys than girls . It will take a long time till everything adapt , no one was wrong

capital_d_colon [#14]

I mean putting your whole career on the line to try and prove the singular female pro at the time is cheating is alarming to say the least.
the amount of harassment was absurd.

would she have faced this if she was a guy?
no.

How can you definitively say she wouldn’t have been investigated if it was a guy?

ilovefrozenblueberries [#17]

How can you definitively say she wouldn’t have been investigated if it was a guy?

because there was other pros at a similar skill level at her age at that time?
and they did not face any where near to the level of critism or suspicion as she did.

she did a hand cam stream, wasnt enough evidence
she had to put a camera in the back of the room to film her screen and her playing just calm people down

capital_d_colon [#18]

because there was other pros at a similar skill level at her age at that time?
and they did not face any where near to the level of critism or suspicion as she did.

she did a hand cam stream, wasnt enough evidence
she had to put a camera in the back of the room to film her screen and her playing just calm people down

Ok but the only similarity is they’re gender? Also the game they’re playing. There is so much other differences but you choose to attribute the fact that she got investigated solely on the reason because of her gender.

Why do you think she is being investigated only because she is a women? Men can and have been investigated too. It seems kind of sexist that you think she only is being investigated because she is a women and not attributing that she is being investigated because she’s simply good at the game. If there was a women and they were terrible at the game, would someone investigate them??? She is just really good at the game and thats why people think they are suspicious, just like how male players who were really good also had suspicion put on them. Investigation is not bound by genders and its sexist to think only women can be investigated when men can be investigated too.

haizzz [#5]

then why is gamechangers a thing?

okay i get that in general and in ranked etc. women get unnecessary harrassment and it sucks. fine. but in a competitive league? nobody actually cares, atleast in the t1 scene. in that ow example, why would she care about her enemies thinking she is cheating and wanting to quit because of it? if ur better, then ur better. no matter how u put it, gc is a space where t2/t3 skill gets rewarded more with better salaries or clout which would otherwise be worth no/little salaries or clout in the main league.. because they are women? now is that fair? even c9w, 6x gc na champions, can barely compete in t2.

edit: jst saw kat tweeting she's leaving gc to compete in the main league. that is true equality and i really respect her for that. i think she's a great player individually and hope she will be able to do well, and prove that gc is not needed.

acels1 [#8]

but there are cases of ppl faking to be non-binary? what crack are u smoking

there is a single case of someone doing it during almost 2 years of game changers existing (also that person is apparently truly non binary but i dont have more info on that).
but saying that the system is being abused by ppl faking it is just not true

sank3tsu [#15]

Sorry , she was a streamer mb

im gonna assume youre talking about nadia? if so she never got banned?

alice_ [#21]

there is a single case of someone doing it during almost 2 years of game changers existing (also that person is apparently truly non binary but i dont have more info on that).
but saying that the system is being abused by ppl faking it is just not true

dylexic faked it and admitted it tho. are u talking about keenc?

sank3tsu [#16]

I mean , gaming community has way more guys than girls . It will take a long time till everything adapt , no one was wrong

they were wrong tho? she literally wasnt cheating

rapiDtheLad [#6]

And although I agree with you that Trans women are more common than trans men it seems (although I can't really argue that it's factual) that isn't the fault of trans women. The point of Game Changers in the first place is to give marginalised genders a chance to compete in a space that is dominated by men and generally unfriendly to women. (Don't argue that women don't face abuse in gaming for being women, that's being willfully ignorant.)

No one is talking about whose fault it is, dude. The point is that if gender didn't matter at all in how good you can be in fps games then we should be seeing more trans men in the main league, right? Cz it's better pay and more exposure so why don't we see more trans men competing in top tier VCT tournaments? You wouldn't be able to get into an European professional women soccer team as a trans woman and there's a reason for that. You can do whatever you want with your body but you can't deny biology. Men are in general more athletic than women, that's a fact.

rapid get off VLR u aint gonna bring sense into vlr dot gg

alice_ [#21]

there is a single case of someone doing it during almost 2 years of game changers existing (also that person is apparently truly non binary but i dont have more info on that).
but saying that the system is being abused by ppl faking it is just not true

hhhm in this case he was caught
who knows how many people faking it just to get ez money

MaRvEdFanBoy1867 [#24]

they were wrong tho? she literally wasnt cheating

They werent wrong for they did , they were wrong on their conclusion

game changers' purpose is to assimilate their players into main VCT btw

sank3tsu [#28]

They werent wrong for they did , they were wrong on their conclusion

they were wrong tho because the did a witchunt basically to prove she wasnt legit. her gameplay wasn't even absurd she was just a woman

Youre spitting straight hot trash

I mean it is definitely a topic which should be discussed a lot.A lot of debate must happen and a good decision should be made.

shermie [#26]

rapid get off VLR u aint gonna bring sense into vlr dot gg

Thanks babe

Women are allowed to play in the normal league, right?

Granite [#35]

Women are allowed to play in the normal league, right?

yes