I don't think anyone can argue against someone who is as stubborn as you lmao, your only argument is that you "watch him more than me" and that I "don't understand thai", you do realize that these are not factors that are going to make or break this debate lmfao.

since Riot is giving power to the orgs, not the players

This is just wrong lmfao the well known requirement is that they needed to maintain the players

"You might go coachless [frost] or you might not be able to coach for a whole year, so you need to figure out what to do quickly. And I [frost] did."

So if Talon stayed together and crws was telling frost that he might go coachless the next year, are Talon just not going to have a coach or is that because crws is going to transition to that coach? let's use our brains here.

Ange1 robbed

Where is your source that he didn't want to go coach?

He literally said he was going to retire this year to go coach... 0/8

Why would EG get an academy team that is better than their current team lol

No one piece fan is saying to watch the entire series in one sitting lol, also the dude is asking a question why you tryna spread the onepiss agenda

least amount of first engagements in terms of a duelist

Do you even know what fks calculate...? how tf can aspas get a first kill if he doesn't get the first engagement lmfao, if he was "baiting" his teammates like a lot of baiters say then he wouldn't get the first kill the enemy team would get it.

Even then getting first kills is the job of a duelist and he's one of the best to do it lol.

Most passive duelist while having the second highest fk rating at champs and stage 2?????? just say you only get your information from baiters or you are a baiter yourself lmao

So we don't think aspas was doing that already? his champs stats themselves show this lol

Is lukxo not a rookie now???

Idk why people hate LOUD so much, they are just playing it smart with financial stuff unlike other orgs, even then they always invest into the Brazilian talent unlike other Brazilian teams too.

When tf did we start comparing the stats of the IGL?? LMFAOOO we seriously are picking at straws atp...

Cherry picking one game out of the many that T1 played is absolutely crazy lmao, they were insane in the games before and the only reason T1 won with terrible stats is because G2 was the better team just sold in the last 2 maps.

"but when they lost it was stomps."

https://www.vlr.gg/530364/talon-vs-rex-regum-qeon-vct-2025-pacific-stage-2-lf
https://www.vlr.gg/530362/talon-vs-paper-rex-vct-2025-pacific-stage-2-ubf/?game=all&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/508841/talon-vs-paper-rex-vct-2025-pacific-stage-2-w4/?game=all&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/508829/talon-vs-detonation-focusme-vct-2025-pacific-stage-2-w2/?game=all&tab=overview

None of these games that they lost in were "stomps" lmfao.

Also the games that T1 lost were not stomps either and the games they won weren't always close games so we can stop baiting.

What are you saying LMFAO

Top 4 is already a good achievement so idfk what you're yapping about "omg it's only 8 teams!!" when they had to reach a grand final to even attend the event.

Also T1's players' stats aren't even bad??? so idfk what you're talking about there either, you're basically just picking at straws atp.

Yeah so without stats how would they be winning rounds? are the enemy just giving them free round wins or are they actually using their brains to get those round wins? 0/8 lmao

Also, by running it down, i mean they are js doing bad.

Also this is still Munchkin's fault, nothing will justify that terrible tilt calling from an IGL lmao

Talon had the players and talent to make most internationals if they had better calling and playbook, but instead they just rely on their team out fragging the opponents.

Talon had the players and talent??? no one on Talon besides primmie was in the top 25 in stage 2 lmfao. They only got to top 3 because of their calling and playbook.

Also GenG running it down is the fault of Munchkin because he, as the IGL, is supposed to control that.

sayf did it with a super team and still couldnt do anything once they got theree since he sucked ass.

He literally got top 4 at Bangkok but I guess he "couldn't do anything"

also, Talon has primmie, a generational talent, jitboys, a very good senti role player, thyy, a good entry duelist that pops off when he needs to, and killua, a good initiator role player.

Literally no one besides primmie was in the top 25 in stage 2 lmfao, they shouldn't even have gotten to where they were on paper.

And munchkin had multiple opportunities to not get eliminated by RRQ this year and adapting to them like any good IGL would do and also shouldn't have thrown half of the series he played. Yet you are still considering him a top IGL in pacific while shaming Talon for one thing lol.

I agree sayf was a shit igl, but he had insane talent on his roster so he still made it

So you are contradicting yourself, you can get into a LAN while being a shit IGL, not making a LAN shouldn't take away from your level of IGLing lmfao. Talon had literally one good player (primmie) while VIT had an insane roster of players.

you literally cant be a good igl let alone the best in pacific without making a single international in a tactical shooter

Jamppi did not make a single LAN this year yet people were saying he's a great IGL and was the reason why he got picked up by VIT in the first place lmao.

"Crws and frost crumbled under pressure" yet you are still thinking that Munchkin is a top IGL when he literally threw multiple series advantages because he was tilted

There are many worse IGLs than him who can make internationals, Sayf literally made an international despite being a terrible IGL so idk what your point with arguing that not making an international takes away from his IGLing ability.

I mean two years of changing coaching and IGLs is changing something lol

We are talking about the team/org why does it matter if that roster has anything to do with zeta now?????????

I mean like I said ZETA doesn’t have the pleasure of picking and choosing the best players from their region unlike what liquid can do. A reminder to you that ZETA is still the only Japanese team to have ever done something at a LAN, also the only Japanese team that has attended a LAN in franchising compared to DFM who is “improving” but still can attend.

Yeah? And what about prior years like in 2024 where their roster was completely trash?

Even then making LANs and not doing much in them does not meet “high expectations” lol. Like if you had high expectations for a team you would at least expect them to make it out of group stages at least once.

I mean I’m not seeing any comments from you about liquid despite them being one of the biggest orgs in esports too.

Seems kind of hypocritical that you have high expectations for only ZETA even if they are one of the biggest orgs in the scene rn

if noone wants to leave tier 2 then who r they supposed to get instead

You should be the one asking yourself this before complaining about HoneyBunny lol, at least they have a stand-in for now.

just mad at zeta for doing nothing for 3 years in a row

They made champs in 2023 and tried to improve their roster by taking the Fennel core in 24? Even this year they broke their internal rule of "only having Japanese players" with TenTen signing to try to improve. Kind of seems you're js hating on ZETA just to hate lmao

Do you know the complete story or what's happening behind the scenes as to why he got dropped? no you don't and plus Honeybunny isn't even confirmed on the team it's just a stand-in

Also I find it funny that these are the same guys who said zekken would join MIBR and there has been no announcement of it happening yet lol

I mean not their fault no good japanese tier 2 player wants to leave their team lol

Holy fucking shit why tf do I keep getting some "carter's" ad and it takes up the entire fucking page and I need to click the x at the top right every single time I load a new page

You can literally press the stats button on stage 1...

He got removed because he didn't perform well in those 2 games, had EDG kept him he could've developed into a pretty good player. It's just that EDG needed quick results due to high expectations so they couldn't really develop him.

I mean that is true but it's also a problem to do with EDG not giving enough time to zjc, just imagine if a team was this reactionary like FNC and Kaajak, they would've never developed one of the best duelists of the year.

Chichoo was the second highest rated in the team and in the top 10 of stage 1 after s1mon got kicked??? dawg wtf are you saying lmfao

Kicking s1mon wasn't the main driving factor to EDG's poor performance. EDG's comps were beyond cooked since KK's yoru wasn't good, getting to the point where nobody had to play it instead of him. Especially in a meta where Yoru is the best agent in the game, not being able to use him properly was a bigger driving factor than losing s1mon.

also is it lowkey not shameless to get promoted twice even though you didn't actually qualify both times

I mean not really? If you think about it the only reason they are even considered is because they were doing good in the first place, just outclassed by another team but still one of the best teams in ascension at the time. At least it's better than M8 who got added just because Riot wanted them to be in franchising.

He also only had 2 games on the team lmfao

Zjc had the potential to be a great support player for EDG they just didn't give him enough time to develop lmao. Also why are we saying this like keeping s1mon would've been good for the team, the drama was already there and the team chemistry was broken, alongside that they were already losing games they should've been winning.

Losing simon has fucked the agent pool of edg to this day

I mean not really? EDG's agent pool was already cooked since KK's yoru wasn't the best, zjc was already a good replacement for s1mon they just didn't utilize him well because of the limited time they had with the high expectations they were given.

Why are we saying this like Chichoo wasn't the greatest player of all time that event? we literally saw what keeping s1mon did to EDG, they started losing regional matchups that they shouldn't have lost lmao. What killed EDG was not being able to utilize/build a replacement because of high expectations.

Yet you cared enough to put lulquid on this list while they did nothing the entire year

Surely we get a scuba mask and an air tank in case you get launched into the deep sea

Pattern recognition? where tf did I talk shit about Korea here LMFAOOOO, "just give it up already" and this is the same guy trying to call me a pussy

So how exactly does past replies have anything to do with what's being stated now? lmfao. "too many victim mentality" when you resort to having to call out passive aggression towards your argument LMAOOOO

And did I call you passive aggressive? no I didn't, I just find it funny that you're calling me a dumb fuck and then resort down to trying to call out my passive aggression lmao

You are also the same person who's calling me a dumb fuck lmfao talking about some passive aggression and being a pussy

I mean this is probably a terrible example for this no? Surely we aren't thinking this when FNC is getting a random sub that has probably barely interacted with the team and isn't the best available either.