Been seeing some posts saying what Invy did was wrong, but it's not illegal so he should get a pass.
This got me thinking...
Q: should laws/legality be the deciding factor?
Slavery was legal
Women couldn’t vote
Apartheid was law
Being gay was illegal
how can u know if the entire discourse is dumb (and care about it), if u dont care about the content of the discourse? just say u care bro :)
Your entire argument relies on stupid hypotheticals and faking obtuseness, you latch onto every fallacy in the book, you have the logical reasoning of a rat and by God I hope I never have to see a single post of yours on this Godforsaken website ever again.
"i use big words i must be smart" and yet u didnt offer a single argument/ example. you are a stupid person's idea of a smart man
This coming from the man(?) who quoted laws from centuries ago to try to start a debate. Yeah, no shit laws change over time, are you gonna lynch a guy that smoked cigars 20 years ago? If you can't be bothered to start a proper argument why should anyone humor you? Judging by your comments to the other person who simply dismissed the issue, you're arguing in bad faith and gets off to acting smug. I have no reason to offer you anything. Good day.
looks like you totally missed the point of quoting those laws. The fact that those laws once existed shows that laws are by no means a good moral compass for humans. Of course i do not expect u to understand that basic concept since you are more prone to anger than thought. Alas that is the life of the village idiot, and all I can offer you is pity
From his gf's tweet, it seems invy has a history of cheating. Anyway, this post isn't really about him but rather a more general question
The examples you mentioned involved something greater - equality. All types of people having equal fundamental rights - to vote, to work, to their body, to their own decisions.
Cheating is a matter of honesty and cheating (dishonesty too) is so normalised in society that it's not seen as immoral as the examples you mentioned.
You might not see it as acceptable but that is exactly what normalisation is, something being seen as acceptable just because it is common.
Take this for an example, for a person to cheat on someone, they need a third person to do it with. The third person is also generally aware of the cheating which means they accept it, in this case however the girl didn't know as well as did not want to be involved.
Some things are known to be unethical and yet people still do it for reasons they don't even know.
Not saying that it SHOULD be accepted, just arguing for how it works.
"illegal" is the wrong term, it's more to do with being a threat to the community, because idt juv3nile did anything illegal either but it's obviously worse than invy
In east and southeast asia, I would say cheating is really looked down upon. In the west, they have started to normalise it tbh and don't care as much.
I personally am not the biggest fan of cheating, so it will feel abit sour if invy stays with prx.
not defending cheating just explaining why it carries less moral weight in the west.
cheating only has the weight society assigns to it. its not comparable to something like slavery which is inherently violent and wrong regardless of culture.
the “harm” of cheating (honor trust emotional pain) depends heavily on social norms and how relationships are framed. in more individualistic societies its treated as a private issue.
thats why in the west its been relativized as a personal failure while in east and southeast asia its still tied to honor and collective shame.
maybe its a cultural difference to the pacific asians but i think you really have to force yourself to care about him cheating on his girlfriend. is it weird? yes. is it any of my business? no
The question is: should laws/legality be the deciding factor? You can remove invy from the equation , his situation is just what inspired this question
i think we have a general responsibility to follow the law, otherwise the social contract is eroded. however there are exceptions, if a law is clearly unjust it is moral to resist it
Let me rephrase the question. I think u are answering: should all laws be followed? What I'm asking is: Should our moral compass/ what is acceptable, be congruent to laws (i.e. should i accept something as long as its legal and not if its illegal)
ah. no, i don't think they necessarily should be, infact i think some laws should be intentionally detached from morality (e.g. freedom of speech - there is plenty of speech that is offensive and wrong, but should still be allowed to be said) because it grants us more freedoms and protections, and when there is something that must be disrupted, we are free to do so. we should have a much wider sense of morality than just "its (il)legal so we can(not) do this"
Your moral compass should exist independant of legality. It's the classic ethical question of "is it ethically okay to steal when you're too poor to afford food?" Most people probably answer yes, thus their moral compass is not tied to laws. Laws generally speaking should be followed of course, but there are certain laws that make zero sense and that morally speaking are correct to break.
Yes laws should be the most important deciding factor.
(Sorta) Clearly defined guidelines that everyone (intentionally or not) bases their actions around.
You wouldnt be able to create a replacement using the morals of the fans upset.
Matters like cheating are interesting though since its a social taboo in basically every region.
Buuuuut it also happens a shocking amount so legal punishments are impractical at best and a disgusting corrosion of privacy at worse.
Shit like that is between the partners. Shouldnt, and doesnt, concern anyone except for them. It causes just about 0 damage to anyone else, so let em work it out.
I mean it does damage the person you’re cheating on. Same is with m*rder, it causes just about 0 damage to anyone else doesn’t mean you can do it.
The person youre cheating on is half of the partners (and as such included in the damages). Not sure who you thought I was talking about, but I meant the 2(+) parties directly involved (so cheater, partner and depending on the kind of affair the person theyre cheating with).
Murder causes significant damage. State loses a huge amount of money and it deals immense emotional damage to an extended circle around the victim.
That being said I initially had a (way too long) paragraph discussing my thoughts on what "crimes" (in a social sense here) concern the public and which ones shouldnt. Couldnt figure out how to condense it to vlr length so I just cut it.
So it def feels out of place, without that context; mb about that
Its not about illegal or legal... Its just about the fact that he is a player and as the audience of that game all we need to care about is just his performance ingame... And not get involved in his personal life...
Ofcourse whatever he did was in bad taste and immoral but not illegal...
But who cares... Who are we .. the moral police?
so you are saying in Invy's context, he should get the pass since cheating is not illegal?
nah buddy , Juvenile's case was also just limited to texting and he was kicked out wasn't he
We don't know the dynamics of invy's relationship... Therefore we can't under the reason behind they're actions
Still from an eSports point of view.... I don't see any reason why invy should be kicked just cuz he hungout with a girl
Legality is not the same as morality but in a democracy, law is the best collective tool we have. You can morally criticize behavior while still recognizing that punishment should be legal, not driven by social mob justice
When private moral failure becomes public punishment, thats not justice, it is moral purification. And we have tried that before. It was called the Inquisition.
Law doesnt define morality it limits punishment. If law shouldn’t matter at all then who decides consequences and by what authority? Vlr.gg?
law does and should matter, what im saying is the it shouldn't be the deciding factor to whether we see something as morally wrong or right
No one argued that law defines morality, the question is whether moral disapproval justifies public punishment. Thats where law has to be the deciding factor.
those are bad examples because it's false equivalence, you're implying you or some people view cheating as something that should be illegal
laws don't dictate morality, you can be a law abiding citizen and a piece of shit. in which case people will tend to dislike you, as is happening with invy right now. generally speaking emotional harm isn't illegal. It's impossivle to enforce justly and no one could come to an agreement over what even constitutes it, cheating goes under that.
I disagree with the people saying they don't care about anything happening outside of the game as long as it's legal. people forget that the point of the sport is entertainment, you can argue about competitive integrity all you want but invy wouldn't have the opportunity to be playing if it weren't for people watching him play. if he's despicable then people can rightfully not want to watch him play
anyway I personally don't really care, I don't think cheating by itself is a big deal in general 🗿makes me dislike him a bit but not to the extent that I want him off my screen
What he did was morally wrong but it should be solved between him and his girlfriend and other parties involved. It is their decision to what happens and we as fans are just spectators that doesn't know the full decision
his gf left the server and left a tweet about "once a cheater always a cheater" it should be done by now. All thats left is kickoffs
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