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yay : NA teams lacking in creativity

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#1
kskm

yay just mentioned in his Twitch stream that he has noticed how a few top NA teams are just copying Optic's strats like his Chamber positions and most teams are not being creative enough. Personally I've noticed how Neon has become the meta in some maps and also Breach on Fracture - also remember Tenz saying "you're almost trolling/throwing if you dont play Breach on Fracture"

Do you guys think this is just NA teams not being able to come up with strats or COPIUM from yay cause they lost against non-NA teams - Guild, PRX, FPX ?

#2
deluxton
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Copying might be a bit of a stretch. There are only so many viable spots for a Chamber to play on each map, anywhere else would just be throwing

#3
HaSanity
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yea benkai said a similar thing in his last press conference, and mentioned APAC teams need to develop their own unique playstyle to improve.

#4
DELUSIONAL_POTTER_FAN
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^_^ hello

#16
HaSanity
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^ \/ ^
____/

#17
DELUSIONAL_POTTER_FAN
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sleep ^_^?

#18
HaSanity
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nevaaaaaa

#5
JustHunter
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I definitely agree that a lot lack in creativity and that SOME did copy them like starting to play neon but the chamber positions thing is just hard copium

#6
ItsMeDio
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only Faze who trying to "copy" prx style a little bit
i think prx playstyle quite compatible with NA teams, NA teams should try it

#7
charizard_123
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faze copied optic's whole stratbook not prx's

#21
ItsMeDio
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i mean, when i watch faze
i always remember, huh, kinda like prx, but budget version

and i think it's not just me

#25
charizard_123
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They had basically the same comps, and very sinilar execs, I think even fns jokingly said they were the academy team or something. I think people just think of prx when they see babybay bcz he always runs it down (and because of old faze fame) but really victor is just as aggressive

#32
JustHunter
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aggression doesnt = PRX
they dont have anywhere near the level of coordination in their aggressiveness that PRX does. They just play like a faster more aggressive Optic

#8
yer1n
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it's definitely much harder to innovate new strats, but most teams will "copy" what already exists and then attempt to build ontop of it

#9
deluxton
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f0rsaken > babybay

#12
KatZ
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📠

#14
Pumsyslayer
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Forsaken > white forsaken

#19
Soul_Stalker
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Optic Forsaken > Prx F0rsaken

#10
weakest_marved_enjoyer
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genuinely dont know how thats copium. someone care to explain?

#11
Pumsyslayer
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Like other chamber players in NA copying his chamber positions, where he likes to play and what he does is copium

#15
weakest_marved_enjoyer
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coping for what though. the only thing that i can think of that he would be coping for is losing in NA. "other teams copy us and thats the only reason they beat us, not cuz theyre better." but they dont lose in NA. theyre by far the best in that region. idk how its coping for losing to other regions

#20
Pumsyslayer
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That is true they don't loose in NA but saying other teams lack creativity is copium in my opinion. Teams like Eg, 100T and c9 have good strats and eg even beat them once(though they won the rematch). Optic is overall a better team their roles are super well defined unlike other teams, Is not just a strats thing. Secondly, the chamber thing is just hard copium; Yay is a world class player but there are other great chamber players in NA

#27
kskm
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Basically Optic owns in NA and the top teams are not innovative enough to challenge Optic atm. This means Optic does not get much value out of scrims/practice with NA teams. To add to that teams like Faze are literally copying Optic strats by just calling them the new meta.

Copium because it almost seems like an excuse as to why Optic performed sub par against non-NA teams in the Masters - lost to Guild, PRX and FPX - who all have different playstyles and their own strats which Optic doesnt get exposed to because of the point mentioned above.

#37
weakest_marved_enjoyer
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thanks for explaining it OG

#13
archetype
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to be fair this sounds a little ironic given how well-known OpTic is for stealing strats from other teams like Gambit lul.

But he has a point. 100T has some interesting strats though.

#22
KatZ
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100T takes inspiration from DRX and makes some great improvisations to them.

#23
archetype
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not surprised. Sean is a huuuuge fan of DRX

#24
KatZ
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Yes, Sean and DDK are W coaches for these youngsters

#26
namzelor
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V1 were by far the best in NA in terms of utlity usage but now NA teams are just meh.

#28
BBL_Wtcn
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This is present in a lot of regions unfortunately

#29
Blazieboy
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Well I think that's the irony of being one of the best. People tend to try it out for themselves. Look at FPX's no duelist comp on Ascent. Fnatic tried to put Alfajer on Sage for similar impact but it somehow didn't go the way they wanted it to.
A lot of teams started using Astra-Viper after NA's Reykjavik shenanigans.
A lot of teams started using Acend's double duelist split comp when Astra was in the meta.

If you're at the top a lot of teams will try to copy you and that's not lack of creativity, that's what works best.
Optic won Reykjavik with a Chamber and so a lot of teams tried to replicate them by using a lot of Chamber.

#30
V0sotros
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why wouldn't you copy from the best, they are at the top for a reason

#31
TuNyyy
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lmao optic are also copying other teams ideas, they copied m3c split comp, ascent drx comp,etc..

#33
MerkFreeks
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Chambers only got so many good spots to play at on each map, not really copying but teams will copy strats or comps if they feel like its viable or even improvise it. Its kinda hard to completely come up qith original strats so yeah some teams will copy eachother. Thats not just an NA thing but a global thing anyhow. Teams will copy comps or strats from other teams and experiment and improvise with it.

I wouldnt call it copium or NA teams being unable to come up with original stuff. Yay is just stating a fact that yeah, theres trends within the NA region that become readable after awhile. That happens in every region, its why the teams that are the best at adapting or improvising are the best in the world

#34
virtz
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When I saw that NRG copied the korean comp in Bind against 100thieves, I already know it's a streaming region.

#35
yayster
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hey boys, thought I'd add a bit of additional context as a friend linked me this thread.

there's no copium on why we lost. we lost because our teamwork was abysmal this tournament and we were disconnected on a lot of key rounds. we lost some inexcusable 4v2's/3v2's and major man advantage situations, in which if you're wanting to win a tournament you need to close out every time. there's a lot of things we need to work on for champs coming up if we want to have a chance at taking it.

when I was referencing some NA teams copying our stuff, there a few teams in particular that map for map/side for side/agent for agent copied legitimately everything. which is fine, don't get me wrong as I guess it's a form of flattery. but from a personal motivation perspective it makes me a bit bored sometimes as I'm not learning much from playing against our own strats. it'd be one thing to take a comp and expand upon it but that's rarely the case. there's even been instances of us scrimming teams for the sake of taking our new shit LMAO. don't get me wrong either, every team takes from one another and we've taken a lot of stuff as well.

my main reasoning behind this was behind my experiences playing in the EMEA region. we played against top teams for their respective countries and they had completely unique styles/comps/strats that I had not even seen top EMEA teams do. even for me personally, I saw some really creative util (trips/tp's) that I've never seen before. and for me that's exciting because it allows me to continue to improve as a player and gives me fresh ideas. it does make a bit sad though as I felt NA in the past was more diverse at the start- as people were more open to trying things and we saw some really unique styles (everyone was figuring out the game). now it feels much more stagnant and more follow what the top teams do. although this could just be a perspective/biased pov, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

hope that clears everything up or at least makes more sense

#39
kucD
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GOAT

#40
SigmaMale
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Hello Mr. Yay

#41
Kamrann
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you guys should try and get to Istanbul or somewhere in eu super early and scrim EU teams

#44
kskm
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I invite you to join our silver ranked lobbies in NA. We have our own unique strats and play styles for example - no comms - everyone just does what they like, you wanna lurk as a Killjoy? knock yourself out. Im sure you will enjoy your time and learn something for your next international event to catch everyone off guard.

#36
miksy
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narkkari

#38
queueK
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i mean in comparison to EMEA teams I don't think there is any other region (currently) that has the same skill depth and diversity (which I assume is what he means by creativity).

APAC might in the near future if teams flesh out their playstyles a little more.

#42
Neonfreak
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I would argue that in regards to "creativity", DRX is kinda the OG creative team that kinda innovated a lot of stuff util and comp combinations from when the game was still young and even now with the triple initiator comp on Ascent. Obvi, EMEA and PRX have done a lot as well and I think teams like FPX and PRX are innovating even more now.

#43
EU_quiet
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Yay isn't wrong. Both SEN and FaZe copied the Optic comp lmfaooooo

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